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#434313 - 10/19/17 07:41 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Charlie Fogle]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2067
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3.not a bad idea. Post a link of something you think sounds "modern" and I will try. Bear in mind I tend to do pop, Americana and country more than jazz, rock or blues☺️ I won't try to recreate it exactly but will try to make it sound "modern".

Something like this maybe? https://youtu.be/tebjshm7f_I

yeah, that's a perfect example of modern. do that one.


Y'all ARE joking, right?

A 68 year old rock'n'roller - who's entire career is steeped in the tradition of rock and folk - and prides himself on that - singing an old Negro spiritual - first recorded 100 years ago - in an arrangement that is basically Dixieland/New Orleans/Folk using all acoustic (traditional) instruments.

And THAT is you definition of "modern"?


This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic



Cool track Charlie. Can you find something similar for a public domain song and I will accept the challenge from j*3. (Then, if if turns out well I can submit for licensing...)

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#434314 - 10/19/17 07:52 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JoanneCooper]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 3961
Loc: South Carolina
Ok. If you want to do a modern project I'll be glad to help you anyway you think I can. I will PM you with a song I'd actually been thinking of doing and been playing around with it in BIAB. (Yes Floyd, I'm sure it can be done in BIAB) ;=)

May be late tomorrow before I can get a message out. I have a 200 mile trip to take tomorrow early.
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#434322 - 10/19/17 10:17 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Noel96 Offline
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Posts: 11919
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Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic


Charlie,

This is a great song! Thanks for posting the link. I doubt that I'd ever have stumbled across this.

Regards,
Noel
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#434328 - 10/20/17 02:26 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: floyd jane]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2006
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3.not a bad idea. Post a link of something you think sounds "modern" and I will try. Bear in mind I tend to do pop, Americana and country more than jazz, rock or blues☺️ I won't try to recreate it exactly but will try to make it sound "modern".

Something like this maybe? https://youtu.be/tebjshm7f_I

yeah, that's a perfect example of modern. do that one.


Y'all ARE joking, right?

A 68 year old rock'n'roller - who's entire career is steeped in the tradition of rock and folk - and prides himself on that - singing an old Negro spiritual - first recorded 100 years ago - in an arrangement that is basically Dixieland/New Orleans/Folk using all acoustic (traditional) instruments.

And THAT is you definition of "modern"?

I assumed Joanne was joking so my reply was joking.

By modern I meant something written and recorded and charted within the last five years or so. Maybe something like,

Imagine Dragons - I Bet My Life or Thunder
Sia - Chandelier or Elastic Heart
Rag'n'Bone Man - Human or Skin
Lorde - Green Light or Royals
JP Cooper - September Song
Ed Sheeran - Thinking Out Loud
Avicii - Wake Me Up

Some of these seem "doable" with some serious editing and combining RealTracks from various styles. I guess I see how it could be done but it still seems like BIAB is designed to create almost instant classics whereas more modern music would require a greater effort that includes some serious editing.

Just in going through these I am seeing pop really depends on strong vocals or even vocals with f/x. Of course BIAB cannot help with that part! I guess I am seeing the possibilities but I still need to learn a lot.

And I welcome anyone's advice on how to best create modern stuff with BIAB!

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#434330 - 10/20/17 04:23 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2067
Loc: South Africa
J*3 are you wanting to "reproduce" these songs exactly using RealTracks? If so I am not the person to show you how to do it. laugh What I can do is produce my own rendition of a song that I would call "modern" but it wont sound like the original. There are definitely others on this forum who would be able to do this using MIDI (or a mixture of MIDI and RealTracks). If so, my question would be "why". If not and you want one of your original songs to sound this way you have to have
1. A GREAT song
2. Excellent arranging skills
3. Fantastic vocals.

None of these can BIAB help you with.

PS. This guys is the biggest thing in SA at the moment.... https://youtu.be/S1XHMF4ft50


Edited by JoanneCooper (10/20/17 06:11 AM)

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#434335 - 10/20/17 06:37 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JoanneCooper]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5248
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3 are you wanting to "reproduce" these songs exactly using RealTracks? If so I am not the person to show you how to do it. laugh What I can do is produce my own rendition of a song that I would call "modern" but it wont sound like the original. There are definitely others on this forum who would be able to do this using MIDI (or a mixture of MIDI and RealTracks). If so, my question would be "why". If not and you want one of your original songs to sound this way you have to have
1. A GREAT song
2. Excellent arranging skills
3. Fantastic vocals.

None of these can BIAB help you with.

PS. This guys is the biggest thing in SA at the moment.... https://youtu.be/S1XHMF4ft50


Bingo! that's correct.

Yep, that's a great example of "modern" music.

You can duplicate pretty closely some of the radio songs that aren't standard pattern songs.... I've done one that was really close...a cover tune but, I'm not able to post it online. Rules and such..... To accomplish it, I had to play much of the song parts myself and use BB where it could fit nicely. I found a style that was pretty close and spent time editing as needed. All depends on your skill levels and how much time you're willing to spend on it.
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#434336 - 10/20/17 06:42 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Noel96]
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 5320
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic


Charlie,

This is a great song! Thanks for posting the link. I doubt that I'd ever have stumbled across this.

Regards,
Noel



For those interested, you can listen to entire album on NPR - though, it releases today, so the listening part will be removed soon...

I listened to the whole thing last night. It is EXCELLENT. and a very good example of "current" - or "modern" if you will... which pretty much just means.... add a BEAT to what you are doing...

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/12/556939387/first-listen-tyminski-southern-gothic
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#434369 - 10/20/17 09:49 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
Samuel Davis Online   content
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Registered: 08/09/17
Posts: 128
Loc: Florida
I've only been using BIAB for a couple months now and I do not have the full version yet. I am working with the 2011 version with the Country Real Pak Vol. 1 add on. I feel a bit limited with what I have at the moment but I can see the potential of what I can do with BIAB. I plan on getting the full version in January but as for now here is my take on it.

I am currently putting together an album of original songs that have a outlaw country feel to them. I would never have been able to do this on my own without BIAB as I don't play many of the instruments that I wanted to use to give it an authentic country sound. I have played the instrumentals I created for the bass player in my band and he is amazed by the quality that you can get form BIAB real tracks. He has sent me instrumentals to write to before that he produced using samples and MIDI. They sound good but the BIAB tracks sound more natural and the quality is better. He is envious of what I have been able to do in such a short time with BIAB and says that he hates and loves it at the same time. He will probably be a BIAB user in the near future (I'm quite sure of it.)

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.
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#434377 - 10/20/17 10:41 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Samuel Davis]
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 2875
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Samuel Davis

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.


Exactly, if you just spend some time in the styles section and look at the techno, eletronica, and dubstep sections you can find 80% of this in sample loops that will play themselves.

Then go find a mandolin and the right acoustic.

Next find a Real drum track and layer it in, and use a lot of EQ and reverb so it will thump.

Lastly, fill in missing percussion or synth parts with Sample Tank 3 or something similar. Done.

20 minutes.

It's not that hard.
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#434388 - 10/20/17 12:31 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2006
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Originally Posted By: Samuel Davis

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.


Exactly, if you just spend some time in the styles section and look at the techno, eletronica, and dubstep sections you can find 80% of this in sample loops that will play themselves.

Then go find a mandolin and the right acoustic.

Next find a Real drum track and layer it in, and use a lot of EQ and reverb so it will thump.

Lastly, fill in missing percussion or synth parts with Sample Tank 3 or something similar. Done.

20 minutes.

It's not that hard.

You sure do make it sound easy David! Any chance you'd do a "20 minute" example with maybe a brief blog-type how-to post? Please!! I have been enjoying (and learning from) the blog posts from a couple of other forum folks and this would make a really popular one I would think. Pretty please??? laugh

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#434402 - 10/20/17 03:07 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 2875
Loc: North Carolina
Well, let me see what I can whip up. Might not be immediate.

smile
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Audiophile Everything + Studio + Instruments + Fingers
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https://soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel
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#434405 - 10/20/17 03:52 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2006
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Well, let me see what I can whip up. Might not be immediate.

smile

Cool! Thanks David!

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#439185 - 11/21/17 09:49 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
Al-David Offline
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Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 2457
Loc: Alabama, USA
One thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few "demonstrations" of BIAB on YouTube that are horribly done. The comments to these so-called "demos" were less than kind - but the "demos" were really, really bad. One person hearing that bad "demo" talks to other musicians and then there are 20 - 30 musicians that have a negative view of the program, many of them never having heard it, or never having heard it properly demo'd.

I'm not referring to PG Music's excellent demos - rather, to someone, a user, who really doesn't know how to properly present the program but creates and posts what he/she calls a "demo". It's really unfortunate.

I've been using BIAB since 2011.5 and still have so much to learn.

Good luck with your writing/composing, folks!

Alan


Edited by Al-David (11/21/17 09:50 AM)
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#439407 - 11/21/17 10:11 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 3961
Loc: South Carolina
< 4) On a related note, there is likely a concern among professional musicians that using a product like BIAB to write original songs is risky because many of the RealTracks have an almost signature sound that can make songs sound too similar to each other. >

With the ability of each track to have as many as 10 different instrument changes it is a very simple matter to put alternate instruments throughout the chord chart that will completely eliminate the signature riffs and create a completely unique and unreplicable track.

Each instrument change provides a tremendous additional amount of audio for the BIAB search engine to access as it reads the chord changes. You can program the changes either by using the Part Markers or Song Settings using the RealTrack Button near the top of the window. Even alternating between two instruments doubles the amount of audio available to the Biab search engine and up to 5 changes per instrument.

I use the Stylepicker to quickly audition many Realtracks (4-5 instruments per Style) and normally filter my search by the artist's name. It's not unusual to find the artist playing in another style but using the same instrument with a similar tone that will play nicely as a replacement instrument to customize your track.
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#441448 - 11/29/17 12:51 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6340
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Cool thread. David you mentioned Harvey Gerst earlier. I had a great forum conversation with him 6 or 8 years ago. I don't believe he's posted since then. He knew Peter from before he started PG Music.

Harvey doesn't exactly "use" Biab in the sense we all think of. He talked about mostly using it for band demo songs for folks on a very limited budget, not day long studio sessions. Say guy and girl vocalists with basic strumming live guitar, bass and drums. Their budget is $300 and they're doing three songs. That's pretty much turn the stuff on, roll tape for an hour, done. When he's doing the mixdown after everybody has left he decides he wants 8 bars of something to sweeten up verse 2 or whatever. There's no budget to bring in another player. He'll find a few RT's, generate several versions, pick one and plug in those 8 bars, sometimes it was only 2 bars like a short Brent Mason lick . Yes he's using Biab but not too much.

He posted a few examples of this and it sounded absolutely awesome. That dude knows his stuff and I think his son has taken over the studio now.

Bob
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PG Music News
RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#505

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows... Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.
TIP: If you load one of the video RealTracks bands, you will have video RealTracks on 5 tracks, and you can make a video of 1-5 musicians!

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows packages during our December special.
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Holiday Special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: Video link - "Video RealTracks Sets 1-6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows"

Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)! Listen to all the individual demos here: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.202newrealtracks.htm, or watch our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 202 New RealTracks Overview Video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qDFYZMjrzAI

Get all 202 new RealTracks when you purchase any Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade, on sale until December 31st!

NEW! Xtra Styles PAK 4 - Available for both Windows and Mac!

We've just released Xtra Styles PAK 4 with over 150 new RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and 'Folk and Beyond' styles! These new RealStyles will work with the RealTracks included in any Band-in-a-Box® version 2017 or higher UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition.

To add to the excitement of this release, we're putting all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

Listen to all the demos of these new Xtra Styles here, or check out this video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=Zl_wr47d2V0

Video - The Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts over 50 new features and enhancements... including the Build-in Audio Chord Wizard!

The Audio Chord Wizard has been redesigned with Band-in-a-Box® 2018, and is now built in to the program! Previously, the Audio Chord Wizard was a separate app that was not tightly integrated into Band-in-a-Box®. This app is still available from the [Audio Chord Wizard] toolbar button, but now the improved built-in Audio Chord Wizard can be accessed from the Audio Edit Window!

Watch our latest video to learn more: Video link - Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 2 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can download a small (free) patch update for their purchase!

Summary of patch update:
Access violation if clicking on Guitar Window or Big Piano when there isn't any notation window currently open.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_2

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