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#434313 - 10/19/17 07:41 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Charlie Fogle]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2153
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3.not a bad idea. Post a link of something you think sounds "modern" and I will try. Bear in mind I tend to do pop, Americana and country more than jazz, rock or blues☺️ I won't try to recreate it exactly but will try to make it sound "modern".

Something like this maybe? https://youtu.be/tebjshm7f_I

yeah, that's a perfect example of modern. do that one.


Y'all ARE joking, right?

A 68 year old rock'n'roller - who's entire career is steeped in the tradition of rock and folk - and prides himself on that - singing an old Negro spiritual - first recorded 100 years ago - in an arrangement that is basically Dixieland/New Orleans/Folk using all acoustic (traditional) instruments.

And THAT is you definition of "modern"?


This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic



Cool track Charlie. Can you find something similar for a public domain song and I will accept the challenge from j*3. (Then, if if turns out well I can submit for licensing...)

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#434314 - 10/19/17 07:52 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JoanneCooper]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4170
Loc: South Carolina
Ok. If you want to do a modern project I'll be glad to help you anyway you think I can. I will PM you with a song I'd actually been thinking of doing and been playing around with it in BIAB. (Yes Floyd, I'm sure it can be done in BIAB) ;=)

May be late tomorrow before I can get a message out. I have a 200 mile trip to take tomorrow early.
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#434322 - 10/19/17 10:17 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Noel96 Offline
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Posts: 12619
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic


Charlie,

This is a great song! Thanks for posting the link. I doubt that I'd ever have stumbled across this.

Regards,
Noel
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#434328 - 10/20/17 02:26 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: floyd jane]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3.not a bad idea. Post a link of something you think sounds "modern" and I will try. Bear in mind I tend to do pop, Americana and country more than jazz, rock or blues☺️ I won't try to recreate it exactly but will try to make it sound "modern".

Something like this maybe? https://youtu.be/tebjshm7f_I

yeah, that's a perfect example of modern. do that one.


Y'all ARE joking, right?

A 68 year old rock'n'roller - who's entire career is steeped in the tradition of rock and folk - and prides himself on that - singing an old Negro spiritual - first recorded 100 years ago - in an arrangement that is basically Dixieland/New Orleans/Folk using all acoustic (traditional) instruments.

And THAT is you definition of "modern"?

I assumed Joanne was joking so my reply was joking.

By modern I meant something written and recorded and charted within the last five years or so. Maybe something like,

Imagine Dragons - I Bet My Life or Thunder
Sia - Chandelier or Elastic Heart
Rag'n'Bone Man - Human or Skin
Lorde - Green Light or Royals
JP Cooper - September Song
Ed Sheeran - Thinking Out Loud
Avicii - Wake Me Up

Some of these seem "doable" with some serious editing and combining RealTracks from various styles. I guess I see how it could be done but it still seems like BIAB is designed to create almost instant classics whereas more modern music would require a greater effort that includes some serious editing.

Just in going through these I am seeing pop really depends on strong vocals or even vocals with f/x. Of course BIAB cannot help with that part! I guess I am seeing the possibilities but I still need to learn a lot.

And I welcome anyone's advice on how to best create modern stuff with BIAB!

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#434330 - 10/20/17 04:23 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2153
Loc: South Africa
J*3 are you wanting to "reproduce" these songs exactly using RealTracks? If so I am not the person to show you how to do it. laugh What I can do is produce my own rendition of a song that I would call "modern" but it wont sound like the original. There are definitely others on this forum who would be able to do this using MIDI (or a mixture of MIDI and RealTracks). If so, my question would be "why". If not and you want one of your original songs to sound this way you have to have
1. A GREAT song
2. Excellent arranging skills
3. Fantastic vocals.

None of these can BIAB help you with.

PS. This guys is the biggest thing in SA at the moment.... https://youtu.be/S1XHMF4ft50


Edited by JoanneCooper (10/20/17 06:11 AM)

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#434335 - 10/20/17 06:37 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JoanneCooper]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5425
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3 are you wanting to "reproduce" these songs exactly using RealTracks? If so I am not the person to show you how to do it. laugh What I can do is produce my own rendition of a song that I would call "modern" but it wont sound like the original. There are definitely others on this forum who would be able to do this using MIDI (or a mixture of MIDI and RealTracks). If so, my question would be "why". If not and you want one of your original songs to sound this way you have to have
1. A GREAT song
2. Excellent arranging skills
3. Fantastic vocals.

None of these can BIAB help you with.

PS. This guys is the biggest thing in SA at the moment.... https://youtu.be/S1XHMF4ft50


Bingo! that's correct.

Yep, that's a great example of "modern" music.

You can duplicate pretty closely some of the radio songs that aren't standard pattern songs.... I've done one that was really close...a cover tune but, I'm not able to post it online. Rules and such..... To accomplish it, I had to play much of the song parts myself and use BB where it could fit nicely. I found a style that was pretty close and spent time editing as needed. All depends on your skill levels and how much time you're willing to spend on it.
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#434336 - 10/20/17 06:42 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Noel96]
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 5551
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic


Charlie,

This is a great song! Thanks for posting the link. I doubt that I'd ever have stumbled across this.

Regards,
Noel



For those interested, you can listen to entire album on NPR - though, it releases today, so the listening part will be removed soon...

I listened to the whole thing last night. It is EXCELLENT. and a very good example of "current" - or "modern" if you will... which pretty much just means.... add a BEAT to what you are doing...

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/12/556939387/first-listen-tyminski-southern-gothic
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#434369 - 10/20/17 09:49 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
Samuel Davis Offline
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Registered: 08/09/17
Posts: 204
Loc: Florida
I've only been using BIAB for a couple months now and I do not have the full version yet. I am working with the 2011 version with the Country Real Pak Vol. 1 add on. I feel a bit limited with what I have at the moment but I can see the potential of what I can do with BIAB. I plan on getting the full version in January but as for now here is my take on it.

I am currently putting together an album of original songs that have a outlaw country feel to them. I would never have been able to do this on my own without BIAB as I don't play many of the instruments that I wanted to use to give it an authentic country sound. I have played the instrumentals I created for the bass player in my band and he is amazed by the quality that you can get form BIAB real tracks. He has sent me instrumentals to write to before that he produced using samples and MIDI. They sound good but the BIAB tracks sound more natural and the quality is better. He is envious of what I have been able to do in such a short time with BIAB and says that he hates and loves it at the same time. He will probably be a BIAB user in the near future (I'm quite sure of it.)

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.
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#434377 - 10/20/17 10:41 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Samuel Davis]
David Snyder Online   happy
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3184
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Samuel Davis

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.


Exactly, if you just spend some time in the styles section and look at the techno, eletronica, and dubstep sections you can find 80% of this in sample loops that will play themselves.

Then go find a mandolin and the right acoustic.

Next find a Real drum track and layer it in, and use a lot of EQ and reverb so it will thump.

Lastly, fill in missing percussion or synth parts with Sample Tank 3 or something similar. Done.

20 minutes.

It's not that hard.
_________________________
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#434388 - 10/20/17 12:31 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Originally Posted By: Samuel Davis

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.


Exactly, if you just spend some time in the styles section and look at the techno, eletronica, and dubstep sections you can find 80% of this in sample loops that will play themselves.

Then go find a mandolin and the right acoustic.

Next find a Real drum track and layer it in, and use a lot of EQ and reverb so it will thump.

Lastly, fill in missing percussion or synth parts with Sample Tank 3 or something similar. Done.

20 minutes.

It's not that hard.

You sure do make it sound easy David! Any chance you'd do a "20 minute" example with maybe a brief blog-type how-to post? Please!! I have been enjoying (and learning from) the blog posts from a couple of other forum folks and this would make a really popular one I would think. Pretty please??? laugh

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#434402 - 10/20/17 03:07 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
David Snyder Online   happy
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3184
Loc: North Carolina
Well, let me see what I can whip up. Might not be immediate.

smile
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Audiophile Everything + Studio + Instruments + Fingers
ASCAP, NSAI

www.davidsnydermusic.com
www.reverbnation.com./davidpsnyder
www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel
www.musicdealers.com/artist/davidsnyder







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#434405 - 10/20/17 03:52 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Well, let me see what I can whip up. Might not be immediate.

smile

Cool! Thanks David!

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#439185 - 11/21/17 09:49 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
Al-David Offline
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Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 2702
Loc: Alabama, USA
One thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few "demonstrations" of BIAB on YouTube that are horribly done. The comments to these so-called "demos" were less than kind - but the "demos" were really, really bad. One person hearing that bad "demo" talks to other musicians and then there are 20 - 30 musicians that have a negative view of the program, many of them never having heard it, or never having heard it properly demo'd.

I'm not referring to PG Music's excellent demos - rather, to someone, a user, who really doesn't know how to properly present the program but creates and posts what he/she calls a "demo". It's really unfortunate.

I've been using BIAB since 2011.5 and still have so much to learn.

Good luck with your writing/composing, folks!

Alan


Edited by Al-David (11/21/17 09:50 AM)
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#439407 - 11/21/17 10:11 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4170
Loc: South Carolina
< 4) On a related note, there is likely a concern among professional musicians that using a product like BIAB to write original songs is risky because many of the RealTracks have an almost signature sound that can make songs sound too similar to each other. >

With the ability of each track to have as many as 10 different instrument changes it is a very simple matter to put alternate instruments throughout the chord chart that will completely eliminate the signature riffs and create a completely unique and unreplicable track.

Each instrument change provides a tremendous additional amount of audio for the BIAB search engine to access as it reads the chord changes. You can program the changes either by using the Part Markers or Song Settings using the RealTrack Button near the top of the window. Even alternating between two instruments doubles the amount of audio available to the Biab search engine and up to 5 changes per instrument.

I use the Stylepicker to quickly audition many Realtracks (4-5 instruments per Style) and normally filter my search by the artist's name. It's not unusual to find the artist playing in another style but using the same instrument with a similar tone that will play nicely as a replacement instrument to customize your track.
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#441448 - 11/29/17 12:51 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6413
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Cool thread. David you mentioned Harvey Gerst earlier. I had a great forum conversation with him 6 or 8 years ago. I don't believe he's posted since then. He knew Peter from before he started PG Music.

Harvey doesn't exactly "use" Biab in the sense we all think of. He talked about mostly using it for band demo songs for folks on a very limited budget, not day long studio sessions. Say guy and girl vocalists with basic strumming live guitar, bass and drums. Their budget is $300 and they're doing three songs. That's pretty much turn the stuff on, roll tape for an hour, done. When he's doing the mixdown after everybody has left he decides he wants 8 bars of something to sweeten up verse 2 or whatever. There's no budget to bring in another player. He'll find a few RT's, generate several versions, pick one and plug in those 8 bars, sometimes it was only 2 bars like a short Brent Mason lick . Yes he's using Biab but not too much.

He posted a few examples of this and it sounded absolutely awesome. That dude knows his stuff and I think his son has taken over the studio now.

Bob
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Beginners Help - Muting the Melody Notation

Visit our Beginners Forum, and you'll notice our amazing Forum Community helping out new program users!

Like this recent post regarding Muting the Melody Notation: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=458716 - Forum user Matt Finley did a great job of answering the new program user!

Our Beginners Forum really is a great resource for new program users!

Q: When I have entered chords and notation for a song, is it possible to mute the notation and just have the chords playing? This would be helpful for when I just want the chord backing track but want to read the notation.

A: There are several ways to do this. The easiest is probably to use the Mixer window and change the volume slider to zero for the Melody track. Or, hit the Mute icon on the Mixer for the Melody Track.

Another way, with more control rather than all or nothing, is to press F5 at the measure where you want to mute, and select mute or change the volume to zero. Later, press F5 and select Return to Normal, or change the volume back.

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To find out which version of the program you have, visit Help | About Band-in-a-Box within the program. You will see the full version number listing as:
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The number in parentheses is the build number. As you can see, my Band-in-a-Box is up to date and will continue to stay that way because I've selected "Automatically check for updates every 7 days" within the Help | Check for Updates.... option (you can set the number of days to a different number). This window will also look to see if you're version is up to date, so you don't technically have to visit http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm if you didn't want to!

Once you've installed your patch update (make sure the program is closed when you're doing this), give it another try - if you are still experiencing the same issue you can report it by contacting us directly, or you can post your result to the Forum thread that also announces the patch update, like our recent Band-in-a-Box 2018 Build 512 Update (Feb 15) post.

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RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
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