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#454901 - 01/31/18 10:04 AM [Beginners Forum] Traditional Polka in BIAB: use of chorus/repeats to play trio section
drhahn Offline

Registered: 01/19/17
Posts: 6
I have never been able to make proper use of the repeats and chorus functions in BIAB to get a correct playback of a traditional polka. Most of the polkas and waltzes I play have a two to 4 bar intro, followed by an "A" section that repeats, a short "B" section that ends in a D.S. back to the beginning of the "A" section. At the second ending of the third time through the "A" section, you jump to a trio in a new key. The trio "A" section is then repeated twice, followed by a "break strain" with a Da Capo or D.S. back to the beginning of the trio to finish the song.

This form is most like a traditional march. I do not understand how to make BIAB follow this form, since the software seems to lend itself more to song forms with verses and choruses. Can anyone give me some advice?

#454913 - 01/31/18 11:42 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Traditional Polka in BIAB: use of chorus/repeats to play trio section [Re: drhahn]
Noel96 Offline

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13458
Loc: Australia
Welcome to the forums!

Have a read through my posts in the the below thread, it should help. About halfway through the thread, I explain more fully how I created a chord sheet with repeats.

Also, keep in mind that DS, DC, repeats, etc. are conveniences for music notation and, as such, are a way of minimising the number of pages that it takes to write a song. If a song was fully scored for orchestra, it would be very unlikely that it included repeats, etc.

BIAB is like the full orchestra score. It creates a backing that plays from beginning to end. This is how I personally choose to use the program. I layout a song as a single 'once through' (BIAB calls this 'once through the entire song' a single chorus). Copying and pasting of repeated sections makes it very easy to layout a song in this linear format.

From a BIAB perspective, repeats (etc.) are tool that is used with Fakesheet mode and is primarily used for the creation of leadsheets. It can certainly be used with the chord sheet, too, though.


The video clip below is on PG Music's Youtube site. It is a tutorial on using repeats.

Although the video shows an earlier version of BIAB, the process is the same today.

Hope this helps,


#454920 - 01/31/18 12:17 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Traditional Polka in BIAB: use of chorus/repeats to play trio section [Re: drhahn]
Matt Finley Offline

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17419
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I think that it may not be possible for BIAB to use repeats to do what you are requesting. You can lay out the form up until you jump to the trio, but then going back to DC or DS is a problem. I recommend you do the form as one long song with no repeats. The problem you may encounter is a limit in BIAB of 255 measures total. Note the good instructions from Noel that include copying and pasting sections.
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

#454927 - 01/31/18 12:36 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Traditional Polka in BIAB: use of chorus/repeats to play trio section [Re: Matt Finley]
Noel96 Offline

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13458
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
The problem you may encounter is a limit in BIAB of 255 measures total. Note the good instructions from Noel that include copying and pasting sections.

Note that repeats, DC, DS, etc., are also limited by this.

For example, if I have an 8-bar section and I play it through once and then repeat it two more times (i.e. it's played a total of three times), then BIAB sees that as having used 24 bars.


#454985 - 01/31/18 03:53 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Traditional Polka in BIAB: use of chorus/repeats to play trio section [Re: Noel96]
drhahn Offline

Registered: 01/19/17
Posts: 6
Thank you both for that great advice. Interestingly, I use Finale to notate and arrange my polka band music, and I was never able to use that program's midi playback feature to listen to my notation as a complete "front to back" recording because of similar limitations in the D.S./D.C. and trio playback. I actually do use the one chorus option in BIAB as you suggest. I thought that maybe I was incorrect, since I noticed that the tag ending feature is not available unless I have multiple choruses in my song. I didn't realize that I had a limited number of measures available! Fortunately, I have never tried a song that reached that number. I was interested in the tag ending possibility since I have been having trouble making convincing endings to my polkas using Realtracks. Many polkas end with a single "stinger" (to use a military march term) or two short notes, one on each beat of the final measure. I have been using band in a box "shots" to attempt to replicate this final note, but my results are not ideal. Sometimes, the final shot includes an eighth note on the off-beat. I wish there was a way that I could simply copy and paste the sound of a cymbal crash plus snare and bass drum on my final beat. Maybe I could increase the volume of my final "shots" to make them sound accented? I look forward to learning more about this program and this forum looks like a great place to do so.


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