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#460891 - 03/06/18 01:40 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Deleting Bars
mmm2018 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/06/18
Posts: 2
Hello Hello

Deleting two bars in a Song causes a total confusion. What the heck is happening here? A normal band in a box behavior?
(Why cant i just add an image in a normal way?)


BEFORE deleting the first two bars


AFTER deleting the first two bars



Can anyone help me in this case?

Thanks

mic

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#460903 - 03/06/18 03:48 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10963
Loc: Hamlin NY
FWIW - I lay my songs out with one chorus and no repeat signs and I have never had a problem deleting or add measures. However I do agree that what you see should not happen.
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#460908 - 03/06/18 03:56 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
eddie1261 - gone Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4371
I have had SO much trouble with this that if I have to make a change like that now, I start over. It has never worked correctly and cleanly for me. I see exactly when the example pics show. At least that lends credence to the fact that it's a problem on the software side if more than one person has the problem..
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#460934 - 03/06/18 07:05 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 850
Hi,

If you send the song file as shown in the first screenshot, I'll be happy to test this and see if I can replicate the problem. Please be sure to let us know which exact version and build you're running as well.

You can send the file as an email attachment to support@pgmusic.com.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

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#461588 - 03/11/18 08:27 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: Kent - PG Music]
mmm2018 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/06/18
Posts: 2
Dear Kent

Thanks so far for the answers, it looks like, as it is not only my problem.
i´ve just been sending you the file


kind regards

mic

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#461629 - 03/11/18 01:48 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
jazzmammal Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6486
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Welcome to the forums Mic but one question for you. Why would you post your question here in the Tech S.O.S forum which is stricty a non musical, non PG products, off-topic forum?

The Biab forum is Here , isn't this the logical forum for this question? You will get more views and more answers if you post in the correct forum.

Bob
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#461729 - 03/11/18 10:31 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13188
Loc: Australia
Bob,

Why don't you ease off on people new to the forums? At the end of the day, they're free to post wherever they want to.

Quite honestly, I can understand users' confusion in relation to the forums. There are so many to choose from these days that it's very easy to wonder where best to post. Also, this post has already been answered by Kent from PG Music and he had no issue with it being here.

Regards,
Noel
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#461819 - 03/12/18 02:11 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
jazzmammal Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6486
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Ease off? I thought I was pretty gentle.

If you post into the correct forum your chances of getting the right answer is much better because EVERYBODY will see it. Here, it can get lost especially the answer. For all we know there could be 100 people (or more) who would like this answer but they probably won't see it because they're looking for Biab answers in the Biab forum. I guess they're wasting their time looking there when they should be looking here, right?

That's what Kent should have said.

Bob
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#461821 - 03/12/18 02:19 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17249
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I've noticed that PG Music staff do not correct posters about this. It's certainly not up to us to tell them what to do.

I also post on occasion that someone will get better attention if they post in a different forum, but I answer their question anyway.
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#461841 - 03/12/18 04:31 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
jazzmammal Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6486
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Yeah, I know Matt. That's why I don't mention this every time, only occasionally. It makes you wonder though, what's the point of this little blurb at the top of this forum:

Note: This is an "Off-Topic" help forum. For assistance with Band-in-a-Box and other PG Music Products, you should post on the appropriate "PG Music Product" forum.

As for not telling them (PG staff) what to do, why not? It's not an order, just a suggestion but what's wrong with a little nudge? We do that all the time around here.

If nobody's going to enforce these rules then just make this one big forum and I'm serious. Put it all into one then questions never get put into the wrong forum, nothing gets lost, nobody gets slighted so everybody's happy.

Until...

Bob
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#461848 - 03/12/18 05:47 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: mmm2018]
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 850
Hi mmm2018,

Thanks for sending the file, I was able to figure out what happened.

Regarding the first chord changing from Gm to Bb, that happened because bar 3 didn't have a chord entered, so the root chord of your song's key was entered automatically when the chord on bar 1 was deleted. If you'd entered another Bm on bar 3 before deleting bars 1 and 2, this wouldn't look so confusing. That's easy enough to fix though, by re-entering that one chord.

Regarding the rest of this song, it was pretty complicated, with 3 sets of repeats (1st/2nd endings), and you deleted 2 bars that were part of the first 1st/2nd ending. Bars 1-2 had already been copied to bars 17 and 18 and designated as a repeat, so this would have broken the first repeat. Also, since bar numbers changed throughout the entire song, the other repeats were broken.

If you go back to the Edit Repeats and Endings window and hit Edit List, you'll see that the 3 repeats are still there, but since things had been moved around, the bar numbers for all the repeats got changed to:

Repeat begins at Bar 1
1st ending begins at bar 1
1st ending lasts for 2 bars.

If you just delete those 3 repeats and re-enter them with updated bar numbers, your song should be fine. Just make sure you don't check the "Generate (insert) new bars" checkbox when you re-do them, since the repeated bars are already there.

In the future, if you've already put together a complicated song full of repeats and want to delete some bars, I'd recommend that you go into that list of repeats, delete them, delete your bars, then build the repeats again. In this case, if you're deleting bars 1 and 2, you'd also need to delete 17 and 18, so they match and can be part of a repeat again.

On my end, I'll do some more testing and submit a report to the development team, hopefully this behaviour can be improved. Maybe we can have a warning when we delete bars from a repeat, or just have the repeated bars (17 and 18) automatically get deleted, and it would be nice if the second and third sets of 1st/2nd endings had been able to adjust their parameters to match the new bar numbers.

Deleting bars after entering repeats will always be complicated and confusing though, so I'd definitely avoid doing it altogether if at all possible.

Eddie's issue looked somewhat similar, but was completely unrelated. He was using RealBand, which doesn't have repeats. We haven't figured that one out yet.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

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#464783 - 03/29/18 04:36 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deleting Bars [Re: Kent - PG Music]
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 399
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I'm pretty sure that the lyrics would get equally screwed up if they were entered. I only use note based lyrics, and I have had similar problems when deleting bars.

As Kent mentioned, deleting the repeat data before deleting the bars is a good idea, and so is making a copy of the song. At least you have something to go back to if all else fails.

Notation has always been a bit of a problem that never seems to get resolved. But it can be 'managed' if you are careful.
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