|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783 |
Well, the folks in Nashville would and I suppose still do, get a pro singer to record demo's of songs that they would pitch to artists, and, I think that is a good idea. A great song sang by a poor vocalist will be a poor song, mostly, on the other hand a great vocalist can bring a poor song some hope. Fact, vocals make or break a song most of the time. BIAB hasnt started singing yet, so, I do the best that I can with my vocals. It does make a difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547 |
I totally agree. Actually on last week's TAXI TV they mentioned how bad vocals can kill a really good song and ruin your chances of getting your songs placed in TV or movies.
The thing is, you don't have to hire a professional to sing your songs. Just network with other musicians, listen to their music and when you find someone who you would like to sing your song ask them if they would do it for you. They may do it just to get their name out there or maybe you can barter with them. Maybe they have a song idea that they need music for and you can provide that service for them in return for them singing on your song.
Last edited by Samuel Davis; 03/05/18 03:09 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Professional Demo singers are a lot cheaper than you can imagine. For a song you intend to shop to publishers, it's money well spent.
Regards,
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,630
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,630 |
BIAB hasnt started singing yet, so, I do the best that I can with my vocals. Actually, it has. There's an integrated option to send notated lyrics to the web-based Sinsy vocal synthesis program and receive a .wav file of the sung lyrics. Not that you'd want to use it for your demos, even if it didn't have a strong Japanese accent. But if you have no other options... it's an option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,322
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,322 |
Well, the folks in Nashville would and I suppose still do, get a pro singer to record demo's of songs that they would pitch to artists, and, I think that is a good idea. A great song sang by a poor vocalist will be a poor song, mostly, on the other hand a great vocalist can bring a poor song some hope. Fact, vocals make or break a song most of the time. BIAB hasnt started singing yet, so, I do the best that I can with my vocals. It does make a difference. You might think so, but nope.... not true. Having a good vocalist is true. Yes, it helps to have a singer who sounds like the artist you're trying to pitch for. Or at least one that sounds pro and not your cousin who sings in the choir once a week. Often, a great song will shine through the quality of the recording or the production. However, a great singer, no matter how good they are CAN NOT sing well enough to make a poorly written song sound like a hit. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. The best advice I would offer is that BEFORE you spend the money on a "good singer".... work on the song. If it's a first draft and you think this is the next big hit for some super star artist.... pause and get some other opinions. DOn't ask your friends or the folks on internet music site forums. Most of them don't know what a good song is from the writing point of view. Get with some writer specific places.... forums where song writers with a track record hang out, and get feedback from there. Submit your rough version of the song, with a note that it's a work in progress to places like the TAXI forum (it's free to join the forum)..... or join and submit to the screeners. They do evaluations if you ask for it. Or another place is the Nashville Songwriter's Association International. They claim to have staff to evaluate your music who have written the hits you have heard. Only when you get positive feedback from them .... understanding that each person who listens as an evaluator will have a different opinion..... would you possibly think about hiring a pro to sing it. If you hire a pro right up front and then realize that the song has serious musical or lyrical issues, you have to rehire the pro to sing it again. And yeah... you can get demo singers cheap (relatively speaking) who are working the demo circuit in Nashville waiting on their big break. Trisha Yearwood and Garth Brooks both worked as demo singers in Nashville before their big break. First... get your song right.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,945
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,945 |
It's always such an interesting topic! Good vocals versus the strength of the writing for the song. As a listener, what is being said and the story behind the lyrics can matter a whole lot more to me, but sometimes, more minimal lyrics with a really great vocal and overall catchy sound can be all it takes for me to want to keep listening to a song and add it to my favourite's list.
I think it really depends on the song itself, or the artist and their personal flare and style, but I also think that a well written song can go pretty far even if the vocalist is not quite on the same level as the actual song writing.
I think at the end of the day pitching a song, no matter what, is always going to be a difficult and exhausting process, especially in a place like Nashville. But you always have to keep trying! You never know when your chance might come along.
Last edited by Ember - PG Music; 03/08/18 07:31 AM.
Cheers,
Ember
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,051
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,051 |
I think Ember well summed it up in her second paragraph.
If a vocal has soul then I'm in - for multiple genres. I could listen to some vocalists sing the proverbial telephone book and enjoy it. FWIW I tend to pay attention to the lyric only after a few bars of hearing what's happening with the vocal. If the heart/soul is there I can listen to a very average (but not "pitchy")singer and still enjoy it.
As far as pitching goes the only way we even approximate that is to throw some songs out at Songtradr and Crucial Music. Material that we've done because, well, it's what we want to do. If somebody else likes it or, heaven forbid, wanted to license it that's icing on the already fun cake. In reference to Herb's post I agree and so do a host of others that if you are "pitching" your material needs to be at the highest level of production that you can do or afford to outsource. Heck, just submitting a song that is several db's below today's "new normal" could cause a listener to hit the skip button rather than raising the volume.
And a huge two cents.
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783 |
All of you guys have great takes on this, giving so many good points of view. I tend to agree with A&R people who will say they can tell a good song within the first couple of bars. Pretty much true, if it doesn't hook me pretty quick it aint going to happen and I am thru listening to it. On to the next.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,272
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,272 |
Pitching a song is an interesting subject to me. It's typically talked about in a vague way. Pitching to who? If you are pitching to or for a specific artist, your song better sound like that artist. A great song that's wrong for an artist, just isn't going to happen. If you are pitching to more of a group of possibilities, you would still want it to sound like what they are going TO BE, not so much where they've been already. THAT can be a fine line. Of course, you can pitch to projects, or reps. Just many different opportunities. My point is, it's good to know what opportunity you are going for. I've heard it said, many times, that they can "hear" how good of a song it is without you putting much into it. No need to hire a singer, or have the music produced. If you hear that from someone, I would question how old that advice is. Of course, there are exceptions, and everyone has a story of those situations, HOWEVER, right now, most companies are trying to do as little as possible. Sometimes, taking out the demo singers vocals and replacing ONLY that vocal with the artists vocal. All music, instruments and backing vox, are used AS IS. As far as a demo singer, it is NOT necessary. I will give you perspective from a conversation I overhead in the studio. "Listen to this. They guy didn't even get a decent singer. I mean, come on! You can't spend a little money to make your product stand out and sound great, but that's what you're asking me to do? PASS! If you don't believe in it; why the hell should I?" He picked the next song from the PILE he had to listen to. I know not everyone is that way; but some are. I've never heard someone say "They really should have gone with a worse singer. This one is sounds good, unfortunately." My point is this. Make it sound the best it can WITHIN your budget...whatever that is. Do NOT let that hold you back though. Just don't be lazy. Don't cut corners. They can tell. Have confidence and competence in what you do. What you lack; work hard at and develop. It takes time; but it's worth it. There has been some GREAT advice given in this thread. More is given if asked. So keep asking questions. I know for a FACT there are some people that know their...I'll say, "stuff" on this forum. Reach out to them IF you are serious. Be open to learning. It's rare that you are able to (and I hope they don't mind me saying this) listen to a song by someone like Floyd or Tom or many others...and study them. THEN IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS CAN ASK THEM! What?!?! Honestly, that's crazy cool! I'll stop rambling now; but I could go on for a while.  Another great topic by the OP. Thanks for opening the discussion.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,121
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,121 |
Hear To Learn,
Thank you for adding your thoughts based on real world experience. There are a lot of gems inside your post.
This thread has been a conversation that I've enjoyed reading. Way to go, everyone!
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,322
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,322 |
To add a bit to HTL's post.... yep, I had the opportunity to hear the "demo" version of a country song that was a #1 hit for a band back in 2008 or so. The demo version could have easily been on the radio and everything about it was copied by the artist/band who charted it to #1. Even the introduction and fills, and the singer on the demo was a talented singer.
Indeed, you have 15 seconds to grab a screener's ear. They don't have all day to listen to the full song. Hence the advice to keep intro's short and get to the chorus before 60 seconds. If your intro is over 15 seconds, there's a good chance the screener hits the fast forward to the next song. You literally have to have them captivated within that time of 15 seconds or so if you expect them to hang with the song long enough to get to the chorus. And when they hit the chorus they have to think to themselves it was worth the wait.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,576
Posts734,572
Members38,494
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean