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#81312 - 07/31/10 10:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Volume of rendered RT files
Andy123 Offline

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Sussex - UK
Dear All,

There appear to have been some changes in ways of increasing the volume of rendered all-RT files in the latest versions (I'm using 304).

I need the maximum possible volume in my rendered WAV-files. Previously I used to set "Adjust Audio Track Volume" (in the .WAV Render-to-audio-file dialogue box) to 29 or 30 dB, and that achieved a very marked increase in rendered-volume, no problem.

With the latest version, that control doesn't seem to work. Is that right ? Is it now disabled for RT's, even though it still appears as an option in the dialogue box ?

Instead, I've found that setting the new "Boost All files amplitude by" (in the same .WAV dialogue box) to 24dB (the maximum allowable) does increase the volume of the rendered files significantly.

I've also investigated the new "Normalize" tick-box - which claims to increase the volume of the rendered file "to the maximum" - but, in my researches so far, doesn't at all !

In sum, the "Boost All Files Amplitude by" seems to be the only way to get significant volume increase in rendered (RT-only) WAV files. Is that right ?

I'd be grateful if someone could comment on how these three rendered-volume options work, and the changes from earlier releases. (Or if you think there's something wrong with my installation, do please let me know !)

Grateful Thanks as ever - Best - Andy


#81313 - 07/31/10 11:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume of rendered RT files [Re: Andy123]
Rachael Offline

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
I use the 'Boost All Files' option for my renders. Normalize got inconsistent results as my ballads were to loud compared to upbeat songs. Note that the 'Boost...' option does have a peak limiter built-in.


#81314 - 08/01/10 01:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume of rendered RT files [Re: Andy123]
Glen Smith Offline

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Hi Andy,

I was using the DAW plug-in to drag the Midi Style SARAH1 into Sonar. I noticed that the Piano part in that style was much quieter than the others when translated to Audio. I also noticed that all my TTS-1 midi levels in the synth were automatically reduced to 90, automatically after I did a combo drag from BiaB. Not sure why rendering midi to audio should change the level settngs in the synth. The waveform of the piano when dragged in to Sonar was noticeably thin and when all the intruments were played the piano was harder to hear. Some of it was just competing for space in the mix, but the waveform made the differences in sound levels more obvious. Using the normailze setting didn't appear to help anything, raising the volume levels for the Piano channel didn't work as they just got reset to 90. I tried adjusting the Boost amplitude setting in the Render to audio dialog and that is the only thing that worked for me.

I haven't done this sort of thing much, but expect to be doing more of it and I can't help wonder if some things have changed in the volume aspect or not. When I just want to raise one part (Piano), it seems like I have to raise everything. Obviously, I can correct this all in my DAW. Just think it should be easier for me to figure out how to tweak it in BiaB, so I must still be missing something. I also did seem to have a bit of luck toying with velocity offset in the advanced patch maps for the piano. I didn't create and save a patch map. Just entterred an offset value and updated the map. Again, this doesn't seem to be a very smooth way of raising the level on one track. Can't say I've noticed as much a discrepancy when draggin RT sets into Sonar, the level of the different parts seems to be close enough to each other. It's the audio translation of the midi notes that has me wondering. Boosting the audio amplitude on everything makes me feel like I'm using a hammer to resolve an issue better fixed with a screwdriver. Hoping, someone out there with more knowledge can respond to our comments and give you a better answer to your question.

Software: BiaB2012, RB2012, Sonar X1 Expanded Producer, etc...
DAW: Win7 64bit Professional, i7 920 CPU, Asus P6TD Deluxe MB, 6GB 1600Mhz RAM, Presonus Firebox Mixer, Yorkville YSM1P-II Monitors

#81315 - 08/01/10 10:46 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume of rendered RT files [Re: Glen Smith]
Andy123 Offline

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Sussex - UK
Hi Rachael,

Many thanks for your reply.

Do you find, as I do, that the old "Adjust Audio Track Volume" no longer makes any difference in the latest BIAB version ?

Entirely agree that "Boost All files" does succeed in increasing the rendered-volume.

I tried 'Normalize' with various tracks, and it didn't seem to affect the rendered-volume in any of them ! I'll go back and test some slow ballads versus up-numbers specifically.

Hi Glen: I don't use midi at all I'm afraid, and I can't add anything useful - hopefully others with more experience of midi can advise.

Thanks again to both of you - Best - Andy

#81316 - 08/01/10 03:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume of rendered RT files [Re: Andy123]
Glen Smith Offline

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Hey Andy, no worries about my midi observations. I just mentioned that primarily to suggest that whether it's real tracks (Boosting) or midi (Boosting and patch maps), these are the only methods I've found to work so far. I believe the adjust audio track setting you referred to in your original post applies to only the level of the recorded "Audio" track, not the RT generated instruments. I believe it's supposed to allow you to adjust the audio track to a level that fits with the volume of everything else when rendering, if required. Having said that, I've tried rendering using normalizing and using the adjusting audio levels function and can't discern any difference so far, either. Seems like somethings wrong either with my ears or what's going on. I would love to hear what other folks are finding in their renders.
Software: BiaB2012, RB2012, Sonar X1 Expanded Producer, etc...
DAW: Win7 64bit Professional, i7 920 CPU, Asus P6TD Deluxe MB, 6GB 1600Mhz RAM, Presonus Firebox Mixer, Yorkville YSM1P-II Monitors

#81317 - 08/01/10 06:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume of rendered RT files [Re: Glen Smith]
Rachael Offline

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
I think Glen is right about the Adjust Audio Track being for an associated WAV.

On the other topic, I find a difference when using the Normalize as opposed to the Boost All Files function. In an earlier post, this was discussed. Matt pointed out that one loud drum hit can affect the entire Normalize process which changed my opinion about using it from BIAB.

Boost All Files Amplitude seems to do the trick. I tried to hear the difference when boosting by 12 and 24. Both seem to produce the same output volume. Perhaps it is the built-in limiter kicking in. I can't detect any compression if it is using such. Further testing is on my list.


#81318 - 08/01/10 06:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume of rendered RT files [Re: Glen Smith]
Muzic Trax Offline

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4912
Loc: California
I have noticed that when using an ASIO driver, my wave files render louder here vs the MME driver.



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