|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015 |
When I posted a song a while back recorded using Sinsy, Don Gaynor had expressed hope that with this sort of technology he'd be able to sing again. While the fine folk at DynaVox haven't gotten back to him yet, I thought I might have a go at solving the problem. You may have noticed I've been a bit absent from the board since then. Here's the result: Loch Lomond (with harmony)It's "state of the art" 1980's formant synthesis. It's not the technology I'd intended to use, but that's a rather long story. I'm still working out the bugs in the code. It's not ready for end users, but it's finally "singing." There's a bit of post-processing on the vocals. I used the PG Vinyl plugin to reduce some of the popping on consonants, and a low-pass filter to kill some of the high-end noise. I've also run things through EZ Mix to add some reverb and compression. Most of the phonemes are fairly acceptable, but there's an /H/ and /L/ that seem to have gone missing. I've only tweaked one of the phonemes. At 0:15 there's what sounds like a breath noise. It's actually a bug, so I lowered the volume there. (I intend to add support for breaths at some point). The accompaniment is PJONPBA.STY (PopBalladPiano & Ac.Guitar[85RS]). I guessed at the chords from the sheet music, so there may be some clinkers in there. The harmony is just thirds above the melody, so there may be some clinkers there, too.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
I love it David! Thanki, mate!
Now you may understand the difficulty I ran into trying to overcome inertia and reluctance to change on the part of Corporations, especially from ootsiders. Very frustrating and disheartening. It's extremely difficult to keep on slugging when we see no progress. I have several dead-end projects that I am stymied on including "The iPod Project" (qv).
Last edited by Don Gaynor; 05/29/13 02:48 PM. Reason: To make a semblance of cents to Canadian readers and moderators.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015 |
Hopefully, I can shape it into something useful. I've taken a couple of days off work in an effort to get this into shape, and I've just found a major portion of the code that needs to be rewritten. Once this is stable, I still need to set up some sort of front end for it. The current plan is to have it read MusicXML files. I've got some code I've written for a different project I should be able to re-purpose. I also need to write some code to do dictionary lookup. I've got a nice hyphenated phonetic dictionary, so hopefully the majority of that work is already done. But... I still need to stabilize this code. If you're really lucky, this will give incentive to DynaVox to finish up their project, and you'll get some real voice synthesis. 
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,047
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,047 |
David,
This effort you have made into this cutting edge technology is outstanding. I've spent thousands of hours since the 70's working on coding projects that had never been done before. Can really appreciate the efforts you have put into this.
Hang in there and continuing good efforts on your "projects". Note didn't say good luck. Patience and stamina, be with you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015 |
This effort you have made into this cutting edge technology is outstanding. Yes, cutting edge 1980's technology at it's best.  This is about four generations removed from current voice synthesis technology. You might recall S.A.M. (Software Automatic Mouth), which was the basis of MacInTalk. If you play with the demo on that page (decompiled from assembly into C, and then converted into JavaScript!), you can hear the familial resemblance. Interestingly, the company that put out S.A.M. is still in business as SoftVoice, Inc., and it was their demo of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star that convinced me that while formant synthesis might not create realistic results, it might be "good enough" for my purposes. Since they've been doing this for the last 30 years, I think their example is probably as good as this technology gets.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,888
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,888 |
Hi David,
a milestone in your efforts. Following your blog I know what a lot of work this was and still is.
Guenter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015 |
The next step it to make this usable. I'd like to write a UI that displays the music on a staff, and integrates with the CMU phonetic dictionary. Nothing terribly complex - just good enough to "get the job done." It'll output a .wav file, which BiaB can load. The rest is up to Don. 
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,714
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,714 |
David,
I commend you on the effort that this must require. Standing ovation for that, alone. Bravo.
floyd
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,085
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,085 |
Kudos David. What a thoughtful thing to do - not to mention all the time and effort involved. I'm sure it will bring Don and others lots of fun in making their music when you're done.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015 |
Thanks! 
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199 |
Hi David, This is amazing! I can't even begin to comprehend the amount of effort that must have been involved. You realize that you'll have to change your signature's saying now! "Loch Lomond" is all about 'voice control' at it's absolute cleverest  Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,106
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,106 |
David,
I've got to be honest and say that my (very) first impression of this was that the timing of your presentation couldn't have been worse, considering the fact that Guenter has recently posted some excellent projects using a more advance synthetic voice. Comparisons are inevitable, and you are at a disadvantage being a single developer working for free without any kind of subsidy.
But the more I listen and compare your synth voice to the one Guenter is using, the more impressed I am with yours.
The biggest difference to my ear is that yours has a pronounced artifact where the syllables are joined together, whereas the other engine has figured out a way to blend the syllables more smoothly... which, in a song environment is definitely more musical.
Having dealt with artifacts when blending snippets in a DAW, I have to wonder if it would help to fade each of your separate syllables on both ends so the sharp edge that causes the artifact is less pronounced when they are joined together.
In the final analysis, all comparisons aside, what you have accomplished here is PHENOMEnal! (pun intended)
I wish you much luck with further development and I look forward to hearing more examples as time goes on.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 06/01/13 11:24 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,816
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,816 |
The patience of Job must have gone into that. I can't imagine the code (and I used to do a little programming). Gonna be fascinating to see how it plays out. Thanks.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,015 |
Hi, Pat. Thanks for the your response. Before getting into details, I should clarify: this project is just re-implementing what others have already done, and much better than me. From text to speech: The MITalk system (Allen) was a great resource for me. The technology is essentially abandoned for other, better approaches. I'll give an explanation why I was unable to go down that route. Also, my immediate goal is to get Don something usable. If DynaVox finally gets him a better synthesis program, then, Hurrah!. No need for this program. I'm aware of the Vocaloid software - I've got the Avanna as well, because it's probably got the best English accent of all the current Vocaloids. I've also spent a lot of time looking at UTAU, a free synthetic singer written along the lines of Vocaloid. In fact, my initial approach was exactly what you suggested: record various phonemes (using Vowel/Consonant/Vowel patterns), cross-fade them together, and use pitch shifting. I've actually written a number of tools to do this. The stumbling block was the pitch shifting. The pitch shifting needs to shift some frequencies (the glottal pulse) and keep others fixed (the formants) or you get the "Mickey Mouse" effect. BiaB uses the astonishingly good elastiq algorithm. I couldn't find any free libraries that gave decent results - even the RubberBand library, which has formant preservation, didn't do an acceptable job. I tried FFT-based pitch shifting, but didn't have much luck. I got better results with PSOLA (Pitch Synchronous Overlap and Add), but there were significant artifacts: Here's an example. The examples I'd heard of formant-based synthesis convinced me that while it lacked realism, it was capable of creating intelligible and musical synthesis. I think you'll agree that, with some tuning, this synthesizer may not create realistic voices, but they can be understandable. And to be honest, I've been focused on just getting the code to work. I've spent very little time on fine-tuning the phonemes. This is alpha-software, and there's lots of room for improvement. That said, in Text-to-Speech Synthesis, Paul Taylor argues that formant-based synthesis is intrinsically un-natural because it can't capture the details of real speech, so I don't hold high hopes for it. I've considered mixing pre-recorded audio with synthesized sounds like eSpeak, but that raises plenty of issues. And there's still the issue of handling sounds like /B/, /D/ and /G/, which are voiced and consonants. So for the moment, I'm sticking with "pure" synthesis. I hope that somewhat explains that approach I've taken. Despite the many flaws, I figured it was time to move ahead with the project. For the moment, I'll be focusing on creating a UI.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,494
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,494 |
Hi, David !
I am no expert on these matters which maybe makes me better judging the end result from a listeners point of view ? I am referring to the tune. Maybe I am partial as this tune has a special meaning for me. You see, once I sang this song to my dear wife Beni at the shore of this Loch and little did I know then, that the words held a prophecy as "me and my true love would never be allowed to meet again on the bonnie, bonnie banks of Loch Lomond" ! She died of cancer on October the 26 th 2011 !
I think you have done a marvellous job David ! Keep on the good work !
Cheers Dani
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,287
Posts790,584
Members39,854
| |
Most Online25,754 Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|