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Hi Everybody,
I apologise if this topic is in some thread, "Search Forums" seems to give the same 200 results regardless of the search phrase. Anyway, what have you found to be the best way to get voice to your BAIB masterpiece? I have heard some great sounds here and I am wondering if those have been recorded in music studios?
My present workflow is to get the back track the closest to what I want with BAIB, then play back the music through headphones and record my voice on a Zoom H2 recorder housed in a small self made portable sound booth.
Finally I use Audacity to mix the track and the Audio.
Any tips, tricks, discussions please.
Karel.
Last edited by KarelD; 12/28/13 10:06 AM.
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Hi Everybody,
My present workflow is to get the back track the closest to what I want with BAIB, then play back the music through headphones and record my voice on a Zoom H2 recorder housed in a small self made portable sound booth.
Finally I use Audacity to mix the track and the Audio.
Any tips, tricks, discussions please.
Karel. Honestly, I would be greatly surprised that anyone else would be using a similar workflow. No offense intended. For the price of a microphone (~$100) and a DAW (well you already have RB). You can be recording, mixing and mastering all in a digital audio workstation. Granted a little more money and a little more learning curve, but this brings you into the 21st century of home music studios. Having said that, perhaps what you got is working for you. How about giving us a listen to one of your productions.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Hi Everybody,
I apologise if this topic is in some thread, "Search Forums" seems to give the same 200 results regardless of the search phrase. Anyway, what have you found to be the best way to get voice to your BAIB masterpiece? I have heard some great sounds here and I am wondering if those have been recorded in music studios?
My present workflow is to get the back track the closest to what I want with BAIB, then play back the music through headphones and record my voice on a Zoom H2 recorder housed in a small self made portable sound booth.
Finally I use Audacity to mix the track and the Audio.
Any tips, tricks, discussions please.
Karel. Karel, Sounds like a fine workflow to me! My only suggestion might be to get a DAW as Audacity appears to be more of an audio editor and may be limiting you. I use and highly recommend Reaper! It is modern, full-featured, inexpensive and has an unlimited trial to get you started. For workflow I do almost exactly the same thing because I am never going to use BIAB or RB for my mixing...I just use them to generate instrument tracks. So my workflow is like this, - write song on guitar or banjo - type chords into BIAB - try various combinations of RealTracks until I find something I like to add to my song (sometimes just a drum track...sometimes a full backing track) - export the BIAB tracks as individual WAVs - copy the individual instrument WAVs into my song folder for use in my DAW - copy the composite WAV containing all tracks into my Zoom H4n - record my vocal tracks, harmony tracks, other instrument tracks, on my H4n while listening to the composite WAV on headphones (and I too have a portable, home-made sound "booth"!!) - copy my recorded tracks to my song folder - open my DAW and bring in all BIAB tracks and all recorded tracks and mix it up In my situation, BIAB/RB are not my primary music production tools. They are important if I need a track from them but sometimes I do not so it would make no sense to base my workflow on them when I much prefer my DAW. And I certainly understand I could record directly into my DAW but for me that raises new issues I don't need/want to deal with yet. Issues like getting an interface for the computer, dealing with latency issues, singing/performing in an area that is set up more for sit-down computing, etc. And, yes, I could certainly resolve these issues but currently, this workflow works like a charm for me so I will continue to use it until it does not!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 12/28/13 01:01 PM.
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Thanks for your comments. You can listen to my first composition here:
[url=https://soundcloud.com/karel-balt/i-dont-know-where-i-wanna-fm1][/url]
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Thank you for your comments and taking the time to respond.
Latency is one issue and the other is the internal noise generated by the computer. I find it impossible to record directly through the soundcard for any sort of decent sound. To overcome that I chose to record the voice off line. Th Zoom H2 does a fine job of recording and the sound booth kills any significant unwanted noise. What I find a bit of a challenge at present is finding the right balance between the voice track and the music track. MAybe that is where Reaper will come in handy?
If you haven't yet, you may want to listen to my first attempt here: [url=https://soundcloud.com/karel-balt/i-dont-know-where-i-wanna-fm1][/url]
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What I find a bit of a challenge at present is finding the right balance between the voice track and the music track. What you very likely need to do is study the care, use and feeding of the Audio Compressor. Perhaps the Zoom has the ability to add Audio Compression to the vocal track after the fact, consult the manual for the device. --Mac
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Thank you for your comments and taking the time to respond.
Latency is one issue and the other is the internal noise generated by the computer. I find it impossible to record directly through the soundcard for any sort of decent sound. To overcome that I chose to record the voice off line. Th Zoom H2 does a fine job of recording and the sound booth kills any significant unwanted noise. What I find a bit of a challenge at present is finding the right balance between the voice track and the music track. MAybe that is where Reaper will come in handy?
If you haven't yet, you may want to listen to my first attempt here: [url=https://soundcloud.com/karel-balt/i-dont-know-where-i-wanna-fm1][/url] Nice track, you have a good voice, but I agree that the mix between vocals and backing is a "challenge" for you. Only you know if it is worth it to you to go to a next level. If you are satisfied with the track then no changes needed, but if you want to improve the audio quality, I believe a some upgrading will do the job. But it will take effort, time and money. But you must appreciate, this advice if coming from a guy who has spent $1,000's on gear and gizmos for music making (...always chasing that elusive tone) - So I may be a little biased  . Lets see what others have to say and see where we go from here. Oh and by the way, thanks for sharing the track. Good for you putting yourself out there. 
Last edited by jazzmandan; 12/29/13 09:20 AM.
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You need to have a good look at REAL BAND... the companion program to BiaB and included with it.
First and probably most importantly, it is a DAW. (digital audio workstation) Also, you can have all the BB tracks as audio and also plenty of additional tracks for voice and other things. In BB you are track limited and there is only one track available for audio recording.
It's in the DAW where you can add reverb, compression, EQ, etc to the tracks and music in general.
It's also there in the DAW where you can easily play with the levels of the various tracks in the mix and the vocals.... to get that balance.
The biggest nit I heard in your song link was that the vocal was dry. No reverb on it. That makes it stand out and sound like it's really not a part of the mix.... kinda like it's in a totally different room from the band. It doesn't take much reverb.... just a touch to have the vocal blend into the musical bed a bit more naturally. It's especially hard to get a good balance between the music and the vocals on a dry vocal track.
Try importing your vocal track into RB's open audio tracks and work in there. With any DAW, there is a learning curve. You have to learn where everything is, how to add things you need into the tracks, set up busses and use them, and of course, what all the FX do when you turn a know or move a fader.... but that's the way it is with every DAW. It may take a few weeks to get knowledgeable, but it's worth it in the end.
I wanted to address the gear for a minute. What you have seems to be working fine. However, if this is to be a hobby that you pursue, you might wish to bump up the gear a bit to the next level. The quality of home recording gear has really improved to the point where it is totally possible to get professional results at home with a minimal investment. A nice ASIO based USB audio interface and a condenser mic can be had at a very reasonable cost. Software suite for mastering and other purposes put the icing on the cake.... My philosophy was and is to buy what I need, once I have determined that I truly need that particular device or software to get to the next level in a musical sense. That keeps me from going crazy and buying everything I see. Now days, those purchases are few and far between. Now I'm back to buying new strings for my guitars.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/30/13 06:30 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Herb, spot on and well said. You do get it right sometimes.
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Hi Carl,
Herb got it spot-on. I am also an amateur (not implying you are, just dodging some comments from the pro's) but my world changed when i bought a decent sound card and a condenser mic. Then you should really explore and persist with RB. I avoided it for about a year and can now kick myself for that!
You will not believe the vocals YOU can record at home if you do.....
Hang in there and explore your options!
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
BIAB 2022W + RB
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Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
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lots of good advice for you to sort through KarelD but I've noticed a couple of folks have suggested buying a condenser mic. I am pretty sure your H2 already has a condenser mic! so don't buy stuff you already have even if others like it!
and that advice also applies to RealBand...if you own BIAB you already own RealBand so giving it a try makes a lot of sense. and, as I mentioned before, Reaper is a great DAW that has an unlimited free trial and only costs something like $60 if you decide to keep it so you should try both and compare and decide what you like better!
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John is right about Reaper being a great DAW, but i always add to that why move to another platform if you do not need to. I tried own and sometimes use Reaper, Sonar, and Studio one. But to tell the truth i hardly ever open them. I find RB does just about everything i want. And if i find one issue where i need to use another program i can. But the truth is there is very little RB won't do for you, and I firmly believe that for the most part why people move to another platform is they want to. there is some reason they like that platform, workflow, familiarity, or just taste. Reaper is powerful, but never did it for me, it was far to fiddly, you have to setup everything each time, busses, and routing is so complex and powerful it is almost annoying. Don't ever let anyone tell you you can't master in RB, listen to Rharv's or ROG's work. They get professional results, in these programs. If you are recording vocals in a zoom and getting good results you would be stunned how easy it is to get the same or better in RB. Herb said it perfectly (guitarhacker) a simple USB interface and what ever mike you have is perfect. If you record by your self or with a friend one of these is perfect for the personal studio http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio...limited-edition I have the big brother to it, and the fat channel effects are so perfect for recording and playing live as well. Plug this into a USB port install the software, open RB, and setup the interface as the sound card, and build your tracks in BiaB, or directly in RB, and then pick an open track, and hit record, and add your vocal. then mix that song right there. add effects to a buss and adjust the amount for each track and mix down. Done!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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I really love the period after a new Band-in-a-Box/Real Band release on this forum. You learn more about the software than at any other time during the year. It just so happens that, even though I have been using BIAB for many years for other purposes (at least a couple of hours every day and often more), I am now venturing into making recordings of my own trombone playing. So this topic was one I was watching and Herb's reply was just what I was after. A trombone is pitched very close to the human voice, of course, although I will probably have to watch a few other factors than might be required for a vocal.
I have always wondered why so many of the people on this forum use DAWs other than Real Band. I guess it is a question of the level or degree of mixing you require but at least here is someone recommending Real Band for we beginners to try for our first mixes.
I have to confess I have never previously had any use for Real Band because the mix I get for combined Midi and RealTracks out of Band-in-a-Box itself is excellent and I can drop out any instrument I choose. All the members of my bands get really great sounding backing tracks for practicing purposes and all my small bands use Band-in-a-Box produced lead sheets and arrangements - even down to the harmony parts. It really cuts down on rehearsal time, I can tell you.
And now to the next phase of my Band-in-a-Box experience.
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Yeeeowwweee guys. That is a ot of information. Thank you all so much. I am going to spend the next couple of days just trying to digest and folow up on all your advice. I have played a little with RB and don't find it intuitive, but that is probably resistance to change syndrome, so I will make an effort to start liking it.
Yes, the Zoom mic probably has everything required for now and it even interfaces directly with USB as it stand. There is just so much noise. What I understand from this discussion is that the a solution would be to get an external sound card with a USB interface?
Thank you all once again, i'm no even more exited about BAIB than I was before!
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......I have played a little with RB and don't find it intuitive, but that is probably resistance to change syndrome, so I will make an effort to start liking it.
Yes, the Zoom mic probably has everything required for now and it even interfaces directly with USB as it stand. There is just so much noise. What I understand from this discussion is that the a solution would be to get an external sound card with a USB interface?
..... Every DAW takes time to learn how it works..... stick with it. I choose to use Sonar (Cakewalk) simply because I have used it for so long, I know where everything I need is located, and it works for me. Each DAW has certain things it does better than the others and whichever one fits your workflow best is the one you will settle on in the end. BTW: The Cakewalk MC6 DAW by itself is $25 right now.... super price. MC is considered by cakewalk to be a "beginners DAW" ... that said, I used MC4 for many years and turned out some impressive music that was signed by several film & TV libraries...so don't discount it because it's called a beginners DAW. http://store.steampowered.com/sub/32067/?snr=1_7_15__13Before you buy anything else.... work on understanding and learning Real Band since you already have that one. More about the zoom recorder. While it works for now, you mentioned it's noisy. Using a condenser mic with a music specific audio interface should make a huge difference in the noise levels. With even a middle of the road interface and low end (price wise) condenser mic, there should be no noise that you can easily hear. One of the mistakes people make with mics is singing too far away from them. This allows the mic to pick up too much of the "room sound" in the recording. They see pics of the pro's singing in a studio and back 2 to 3 feet from the mic and think that's how they need to do it in their bedroom studio. Not necessarily the case. You have to remember that the studio is likely dead quiet, and sound treated to reduce the "hollow room" sound common in many home studios. The big studio is also using a mic that costs thousands of dollars and has a superb sound quality to it. My studio happens to be the corner of a room that gets shared with other activities, and it has no sound treatment other than the carpet on the floor and the furniture in the room. My mic is a fairly decent Rode NT-2A but it's certainly not a high end Neumann. I sing close up to it with a pop filter about 1" away from the capsule. While a nice condenser is my preferred mic of choice for studio work, if you only have a nice dynamic mic (SM-57 or SM-58 for example) they will work well with the interface for vocals. The condenser tends to work much better for acoustic guitars and mandolins and such things, than the dynamic mic. just my 2 cents
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/31/13 06:46 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Another issue is while recording a vocal on the zoom 2 how are you monitoring the music? Are you playing a guitar at the same time, are you listening through speakers? headphones? this information helps us help you.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Yeeeowwweee guys. That is a ot of information. Thank you all so much. I am going to spend the next couple of days just trying to digest and folow up on all your advice. I have played a little with RB and don't find it intuitive, but that is probably resistance to change syndrome, so I will make an effort to start liking it.
Yes, the Zoom mic probably has everything required for now and it even interfaces directly with USB as it stand. There is just so much noise. What I understand from this discussion is that the a solution would be to get an external sound card with a USB interface?
Thank you all once again, i'm no even more exited about BAIB than I was before! Is the noise being introduced by the mic or coming from the room?
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that is the real important question John. If we knew that we might be able to give the right answer. I am thinking it might be room noise due to distance or space.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Thanks again fro sharing your experiences. When I mentioned noise, I wasnt referring to the mic, but somehow the pc introduced noise levels. I think I might have found the source. I disabled the onboard mic!. I tried some of your advice and ran the vocals through RB. I have no idea what I'm doing, so thank you for bearing with me. Is this an improvement? https://soundcloud.com/karel-balt/i-dont-know-where-i-wanna-be
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Hi guys,
No, the noise is definitely being generated by the PC! Direct recording into any DAW will not work on this Laptop (Lenovo B560)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Henry Clarke: Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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