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Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? #266757 10/27/14 04:36 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 457 Catonsville, Maryland, USA Bob_B OP Journeyman
OP Bob_B Journeyman Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 457 Catonsville, Maryland, USA	I've started to arrange and compose songs using BIAB as my main tool for such. Despite its many great features, I for one am not overly fond of the resulting printed charts. Although I have used them and given them to my band members, the charts just don't cut it (IMHO). That said, I'm looking for all possible ways to take what I've created in BIAB and get a great looking printed chart. Sibelius seems to be the software of choice when I asked other members of my band, but they don't use BIAB. I've tried Musescore and find it a bit tough to work with. With these thoughts in mind, how do you get your BIAB work printed neatly for performance? Thank you for taking the time to read and reply. Bob Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266759 10/27/14 04:46 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Bob, I've tried many notation programs over the years. I still use Encore, which I learned about 1993. I cannot recommend it now because of questions about their support, but I've been a beta tester for decades and it works for me. I even did symphony orchestra parts with it last year. Sibelius is a fine choice for serious work and far more powerful but it is quite difficult to master. The company also got rid of programmers so its future is in question. Finale seems to be a stable company. The product also is difficult to master but extremely powerful and much used. If I'm not mistaken, a starter version is offered on the PG Music website. * MuseScore is free and promising but buggy. I know some here use Noteworthy Composer. I haven't tried that, nor a new one, Forte. I've been meaning to look at Notion, which looks promising. Many of these you can try by downloading demos that often do everything but Save a file. The trick is to find one where the user interface makes sense to you. In this way, it is similar to choosing a DAW. I still hope all these programs (including BIAB) adopt a full implementation of Music XML for seamless file transfer. That's the future. * EDIT: check these links on the PG Music site for Finale and Finale PrintMusic: http://www.pgmusic.com/finale.win.htm http://www.pgmusic.com/finaleprintmusic.win.htm[/color] Last edited by Matt Finley; 10/27/14 05:00 PM. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266762 10/27/14 05:51 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 174 S soolan Apprentice
soolan Apprentice S Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 174	Matt: Wow, "I still use Encore", I remember and used Encore for a long time (way way back), I dropped it because of a lack of support. Unfortunately I can't remember much of Noteworthy Composer except I used it for about 1 year (long ago). If memory serves me, it worked well and easy as pie to use but I always thought of it as a beginner's intro into the music notation sw. And so I went for the big ones, I have/had Finale and Sibelius but I didn't like either one; difficult and frustrating to use. I just wanted something simple to use. You're right about checking out the demos. I bought some because of their "name".

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266767 10/27/14 06:36 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,047 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA seeker Veteran
seeker Veteran Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,047 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA	Not in same league as you folks, but about 25 years ago I purchased Personal Composer. Spent hundreds and hundreds of hours scoring. Bought it for about $400 before first 1.0 came out. It is still around and has a free trial. http://www.pcomposer.com/downloads.html Take note, depending on your scoring needs varying prices. Good luck! Last edited by seeker; 10/27/14 06:37 PM. FrankB Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014 Win7, AMD QuadA8-5500,16GB,2TeraHD, Komplete 10 PG Ultra Plus 2016,Alesis 12USB, Sonar Platinum

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266771 10/27/14 08:31 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida	I have generally used Noteworthy Composer (and still do a lot), but I'm also finding I'm really liking Notion. PreSonus recently purchased Notion, and have incorporated some of their plugins into the new version of Notion 5.0. Once you get used to how you enter notes, it's pretty elegant in its design. It also costs a lot less than Finale or Sibelius (of course, Finale just released PrintMusic 2014, which may fill all your needs at a lower price point than the main Finale program). John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266784 10/28/14 06:39 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 457 Catonsville, Maryland, USA Bob_B OP Journeyman
OP Bob_B Journeyman Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 457 Catonsville, Maryland, USA	Thank you for your great suggestions. At present, I'm a little put-off by both Sibelius and Finale, from both a pricing and learning curve perspective. On the other hand, Finale's PrintMusic 2014 and Notion both are in the price range I can afford. I plan to download the trial software and will check it out. I might as well ask now: How do you guys get your BIAB work into Finale, Sibelius, Notion, whatever? If anyone has the time, I'd really like to hear about your work flow to the final printed score. Again, I greatly appreciate your replies. Thank you. Bob Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266788 10/28/14 07:39 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	You can just export MIDI. Unfortunately the chord info does not transfer and you have to re-enter those. MuseScore will read BIAB files directly, including chord info. If BIAB could export Music XML, you could import that into most software. We are close; this already works for the voice synth. My experiments exporting MuseScore as Music XML have not worked well enough. Last edited by Matt Finley; 10/28/14 07:43 AM. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266793 10/28/14 10:11 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida	There is a new version 2 beta of MuseScore available. I wonder if they have improved MusicXML export. If it does work, then even if you don't use it for notation, it's an option to get it into XML, which can then be read by one of the other notation programs. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266795 10/28/14 10:28 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Ah, yes, worth trying. Thanks John. I don't know where the current problem is: reading a BIAB file into MuseScore, or exporting it as XML. It works, but not accurately. Wherever the problem is, it is not a fault of BIAB, as MuseScore reads the BIAB source file and BIAB never claimed that this would work. It would be nice, though, if the two companies got together. If this new version of MuseScore works, then PG Music would not have to devote any effort to supporting Music XML export. EDIT: the writeup says the changes include this: MusicXML import/export improvements - greater compatibility with other applications, ability to control degree of layout preserved But alas, some strange things happened. The chords imported but in the wrong measure, and all the melody notes play but the notation is wrong - everything is the one pitch. ? Last edited by Matt Finley; 10/28/14 10:37 AM. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266801 10/28/14 01:51 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida	Johnny One-Note? John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266802 10/28/14 02:38 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Funny! Why don't you try it also, John? We may have to wait though; it is a beta after all. I noticed that the File, Open menu said that BIAB file types were "experimental". I don't remember that being in version 1, and indeed I got better results in version 1 than this new beta. However, the list of new features says there are now more options for Music XML and maybe I haven't yet found the right choice. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266810 10/28/14 05:32 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida	In going to try it; just couldn't at the time I posted. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266814 10/28/14 08:19 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida	So I tried it. I opened an MGU file with MuseScore 2.0 Beta 1 and it created the staff, but as Matt experienced, it was all the same note. However, when I played it, I heard the melody play. It also picked up the chord progression above the staff. I exported to MusicXML and then imported that into Notion 4.0 (I haven't upgraded to 5.0 yet). Notion displayed the chord progression (with some formatting errors) above the staff, but no notes came through from the melody line. Hopefully later MuseScore betas will provide better support, but it was nice to see the chord progression come over from BIAB into a notation program. Now just need the notes. As was said, it would be cool if PGMusic could somehow get together with the MuseScore folks to better handle SGU and MGU files, but there might be conflict since BIAB/RB are for profit programs, whereas MuseScore is open source. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? jford #266831 10/29/14 01:16 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 1,323 France John-Luke Expert
John-Luke Expert Joined: May 2003 Posts: 1,323 France	We do get the right melody notes from a BIAB file in MuseScore v2.0 Beta1. Here is how to proceed : - Load your *.mgu file into Musescore - Go to Style Menu/General/Score/tick Display in Concert Pitch/OK. It's done. Last edited by John-Luke; 10/29/14 01:17 AM. Reach for excellence

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266834 10/29/14 04:20 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,584 Pensacola, Florida	Thanks, John-Luke. I'll give it a try. I don't use MuseScore as my main notation program, so there is still lots for to learn as far as options are concerned. But it looks like there is hope for using it either directly, or as an intermediary, to notate BIAB scores, both with notes and chords. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? jford #266837 10/29/14 06:32 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 1,323 France John-Luke Expert
John-Luke Expert Joined: May 2003 Posts: 1,323 France	One simpler way to do : Just click on 'Concert Pitch', at the extreme right of the second line of the menu, just near the metronome icon. Reach for excellence

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266838 10/29/14 06:46 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,966 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,966 Australia	I'm a MuseScore fan and have used it a number of times. Once you get the hang of how it works, its workflow is smooth. MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2024 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Bob_B #266839 10/29/14 06:48 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Thanks for this tip, John-Luke. I'll try it at home later. Assuming it works, I wonder why this extra step is required in version 2 beta when it was not in version 1? Oh, well. Is anyone here actively doing beta testing for MuseScore? BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Matt Finley #266930 10/30/14 01:23 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 457 Catonsville, Maryland, USA Bob_B OP Journeyman
OP Bob_B Journeyman Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 457 Catonsville, Maryland, USA	I installed a trial version of Finale PrintMusic 2014 last night. I didn't have the time to 'play' with it, but I did manage to get a midi file created from BIAB loaded and displayed in PrintMusic 2014. The particular file was "Unit 7". I was a bit disappointed in not seeing chords displayed and in the 'swing' eighth notes displayed incorrectly. (From memory, PrintMusic produced dotted eighth-16th notes from two eighth notes, I recall.) Also, the melody (tenor sax) ended up on the bass clef for reasons I don't understand. I'll give it a more thorough evaluation and trial over the weekend. Bob Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas

Re: Your favorite way of making decent printed scores from BIAB? Matt Finley #266956 10/30/14 08:17 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 673 Ontario, Canada B BIABguy Journeyman
BIABguy Journeyman B Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 673 Ontario, Canada	Originally Posted By: Matt Finley Thanks for this tip, John-Luke. I'll try it at home later. Assuming it works, I wonder why this extra step is required in version 2 beta when it was not in version 1? Oh, well. Is anyone here actively doing beta testing for MuseScore? I'm another supporter of MuseScore. I discovered the program earlier this year and used it on a few scores already. I'm not a beta tester, however I have made several suggestions on their support forum and they are definitely responsive. I actually discovered the program when I kept beating my head against the wall with BIAB's ahem... limited scoring abilities. Since I don't use melodies, just straight chords, being able to import them into MuseScore is extremely helpful. Like all scoring apps, Musescore has its own learning curve, but it's not that bad overall. BIABguy

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