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7. The "video windows" bugs. This new feature is so buggy that it's actually unusable. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=273429#Post2734298. The "Save/Save As" problemThere's is no difference between these two functions in BIAB. 9. The "MGU/SGU bug". MGU format was intended for songs with melodies, when BIAB was a Midi only program. Since the introduction of Realtracks, the program saves any song with any kind of data in the melody track as MGU, no matter if the melody track is an actual melody or a realtrack. This odd behaviour leds to duplication of files and confusion. 10. The "Custom track names" problem If you're using custom track names, many windows and dialog boxes (for instance any bar "chord options" window) will still show the old convention (B/D/P/G/S/M/S), wich is confusing. 11. The "User tracks waltzes" bughttp://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=267013
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12. The "Notation Options" Bug
Lead Sheet Windows -> Options -> Notation Options -> OK -> Access violation.
13. The "Freeze track" bug.
If you freeze a track, and then generate a song using "The melodist", youl'll get the frozen track not following the corrects chords, and the mixer will show incorrectly the name / color of the frozen track.
14. The "Soloist" bug
If you choose a realtrack soloist from the "Select Soloist" window, the track won't appear on the "Realtracks Picker" window.
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MY HERO!! I could add tons of Mac-specific 'issues' to this list!
A massive +1 from me!!!
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
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Cerio,
Thank you for the very detailed bug list. Hope you'll continue the effort as I'm sure there are more.
+1 for fixing what's listed so far.
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15. The 256 bar limit. A serious limitation from the 8 bit era, still present in BIAB 2015 16. The 8.3 filesystem issues. Another standard feature of Windows 95 still not fully supported by BIAB 17. Drag & Drop support. Just another standard feature from Windows 95 era, not fully supported in BIAB (think on a "Style Picker Windows" where you could organize your favourite styles simply by dragging & dropin' them) 18. "Section letters" don't appear in the main Window. This issue was supposedly fixed on 2015 b411, but the problem is still there, http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=39046&Number=272055#Post272055 19. Allow Show / Hide / Resize functions for all the GUI elements. Another standard feature in any modern audio program, and another very requested feature: we really don't need that enormous mixer right there all the time! 20. The resolution problems. Actually only modern computers with very high resolutions can show the whole BIAB screen, whose GUI is just too big for computers with medium to high resolutions. Most modern 15'' laptops simply won't be able to correctly show BIAB's GUI (see also p. 6) 21. The Copy/Cut & Paste Audio Bug This is a diffuse bug, I couldn't find a systematic pattern o situation where the problem always arises: Copying / Cutting Audio from the Audio Edit windows simply works erratically, especially with big audio files and files imported from the ACW with tempo-mapped bars. 22. The Vertical Scroll Bar Bug in ACW The scroll bar on the ACW, instead of moving the chord grid vertically as it should, just moves the bar cursor horizontally, bar by bar. This makes very difficult having quick access to song parts that are not on the screen. 23. The chord navigation problems. When you have a long song with many chords, navigating between different parts of the song is a nightmare: there are no visual markers, no zoom system, there is no way of showing more (or less) than 4 bars per row (BTW in ACW we have that possibility), and the scroll between chords pages itself (when the cursor reaches the last chord of the page) is just too abrupt and confusing. 24. The redundancy / disorganization of the menus. Simply put, all the menus need a serious and urgent reorganization. Under the "File" menu, for example, there are no less than eight different commands (!!!) to open a song, most of them redundant (ex: " Open" already includes "Open Audio", "MIDI", "Kar", but they're there anyway, not grouped into a submenu, but in the same hierarchical level as the main "Open" command) and some of them simply unnecessary (ex: "Import MGU Song")
Last edited by Cerio; 12/16/14 08:21 AM.
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A great list Cerio - I recognise a few but not all here.
This is why I bang on (apols) about a 64 rewrite. The whole thing needs a rethink, fresh blood.
point 24 "redundancy of menus" we have just had our GUI update and all that stuff was left there again, when its entirely obvious to any good GUI designer that it all needs a rethink. Graphically there are so many ways the presentation of information could be improved.
Not sure about the thread title 'before adding new features fix these basic ones' as I and many others could add a lot more bugs/obscure workings. Just 'fixing the basic ones' would leave development ignoring a proper rethink of how the data sits, is organised and is presented to the user, its all such a mishmash.
The one new feature that is required (we agree I think) is simple, that it WORKS - all of it.
I feel it's a redesign that is needed, fresh modern eyes.
Last edited by ZeroZero; 12/16/14 02:24 AM.
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interesting list. I will say that ASIO4All is kind of a dead horse. It is not actually an ASIO driver, it is a wrapper that make MME act like ASIO, and truth be told it is super buggy on a lot of systems. I never could get it to play right over two or three different computers. The rest of the list is pretty solid.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Zero Zero: it's obvious that the program needs a rewrite, but being honest, I don't think that's going to happen, at least in the near future (I wish I'm wrong). So, at least I hope that the developers will fix some of this problems in future updates.
Robh: I've used Asio4all in many different computers (and many different programs) during the last years without problems. In fact, it's the driver I actually use at home for my home recordings with Reaper, and it runs flawlessly. The only program where I've systematically found problems with this driver (well, in fact, with different dedicated ASIO drivers from different soundcards), no matter which computer I use, is BIAB (and Realband)
Last edited by Cerio; 12/17/14 05:27 AM.
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25. The Recording at relative tempo bug. When recording audio using the new relative tempo feature, the resulting audio is completely out of sync. 26. The "Chord preview" problems. The Chord preview feature works only when using the old MME drivers. Also, if you change your Audio drivers from ASIO to MME, the Chord preview won't work even when using MME drivers (you need to got to "Return to factory settings" to get that feature back). Lastly, Chord preview doesn't work on ACW, which probably is the most useful place where you could use that function. 27. The "Copy From...To..." bug.Described here: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=20197&Number=132321#Post13232128. The "Half-time RT don't follow changes in time signatures" bugDescribed here (P1) http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=19120&Number=123676#Post12367629. The Audio Part issues.If you right click on Audio -> Solo, all the tracks will be red, including the Master track (first oddity). If you now go to Master -> Unmute All, all the tracks will be normal now, but the Master will continue in red and everything will sound fine (second oddity). The Master will continue in red, no matter what yo do until you click again on Audio -> Mute (third oddity). If you mute the Audio track, it appears a check symbol on the menu. If you solo the Audio Track, there's no check symbol, no matter how many times you click on the menu (fourth oddity). 30. The "Yellow Melody even if there's no melody" bug.If you create a new song using the "Melodist" and uncheck the "Generate Melody" option, the Melody track will be yellow even if there's no melody. 31. The "Overwrite solo" problems. Currently the only possibility of partially generating Realtracks in BIAB (a much requested feature) is through the "Soloist", using the Custom Mode option. However, the results are nearly always unusable and unmusical, and the phrases are abruptly cutted off. And last, but not least... 32. Inconsistency, redundancy and lack of connection between dialog boxes. As with the menus, there's a lot of inconsistency and redundancy between many different dialog boxes in BIAB, due to the way the program has growth during these last years. For example, if you want to assign a Realtrack Soloist to the soloist track, you can: a. Use the Realtracks picker window and choose the Soloist from there. b. Use the Select Best Soloist picker window and choose the Soloist from there. c. Use the Soloist picker window and choose the Soloist from there. d. Use the "Band styles" windows and pick a real style with solist from there. e. Use the Stylepicker window and pick a style with a real soloist from there. f. Right click on the Soloist track and click on the "Choose Realtrack from Recently chosen" option. All these dialogs do essentially the same (assign a realtrack to the soloist track), but all of them are dispersed over different places of the GUI, all of them have different options (for example, half time option is only available in the main "realtracks picker window"), different search methods, and worst of all, they are not connected in any way between them. If this way of working is a confusing even for experienced users, try to imagine what a nightmare can be to understand all this "logic" for a newcomer. The GUI really, really, really, needs to be simplified!Finally, I really don't want to sound all negative: I LOVE the program, I've always (and I'm still am) a fan, I can't express my gratitude enough to Peter and his team for the many hours I've enjoyed and learned with this program. I just wish that for 2016 some of these problems will be addressed, and that the development team will concentrate, instead of adding more and more features, on stability issues, consistence between old and new features, and on unifying / modernizing / simplify the GUI
Last edited by Cerio; 12/18/14 06:30 PM.
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I'm not a deep enough user to have encountered many of these issues (except for simplifying the menu system, which I have been yammering about for years). Nevertheless, everything in this thread has been carefully considered and documented if possible, so obviously they are significant issues to the concerned users.
I give a big "+1" in the vernacular. Properly speaking, I urge the Good Doctor and the development team to take a close look at these in the context of consistency and ease of use. Like Cerio and many others, I sing the praises of PG Music and BIAB, yet wish for more elegant programming to be implemented.
Thanks, and Merry Christmas, y'all!
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Cerio, i noticed that in RB the file drop down system is somewhat different this year, so at least that one is moving forward.
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Cerio, i noticed that in RB the file drop down system is somewhat different this year, so at least that one is moving forward. That's a good start. A basic reorganization of the menus shouldn't take much more than a couple of hours from the development team. Things like this:  or this:  are one of the main reasons why so many people perceive the program as "difficult" and "non intuitive". In effect, even for experienced users, is difficult to find the right one in that jungle of commands, all in the same level, without any kind of hierarchy or logic. Just grouping all related commands in submenus, arranging the order of the commands following logical criteria (or in alphabetical order, when appropriate) and deleting redundant / outdated commands, will help a lot.
Last edited by Cerio; 12/20/14 08:56 PM.
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Great list Cerio in particular this one grabs my attention,
19. Allow Show / Hide / Resize functions for all the GUI elements.
But to be honest I have given up hope with all the requests for rewrites or a lot of fixes.
I don't think PGmusic has the resources to do it, don't see the necessity to do it, and will carry on the way it is.
The only time I can see a major rewrite taking place is if PGmusic is bought out, or something happens that biab no longer works with a windows OS, and the failing to do so is so great that only way to solve it is having a total rewrite.
That saying I love biab even the way it is, and will continue to upgrade if finances allow.
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...and will continue to upgrade.
Musiclover Agree with everything you said, except this. This will mark the fist year since the very beginning... is it me or is it BIAB? 
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33: VST selection not saved bug
Setup a specific VST and other options in the Plugins. Save. Close the song.
Later reopen the song and the VST has reverted to the default, and also in the case of multiple instruments in the VST library, the required Instrument does not load in the VST.
Other slots previously used are blank also (e.g. is reverb, compressor etc).
At the moment I am using Song Memo to remind me what the the VST settings were so I can set them up again each time.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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(Copy post from BIAB for Windows Forum)
By way of introduction: a big +1 to Cerio's call over in the Wishlist for a clean re-write, in preference to new toys, during 2015.
I'd like to mention three new bugs in 15 that weren't there in 14.
First: 'remember window size and position' used to work periodically. In 15, it never works: 2015 allows launches maximised.
Second: When replacing one loop with another, I often now get a 'division by zero' error. I can get around it by removing the loop completely, and loading a new loop, but changing loops is now considerably more awkward than before.
Third, saving the file no longer saves VSTis properly. Every time I re-open a file, the VSTi I've saved has reverted to Sample-Tank! This never happened in 14.
I wonder if these are bugs which could be easily fixed, pending the Cerio-revise many of us dream of ?
Happy Xmas & NY15 to all. Especially to all at PG. Best - Andy
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Great Andy. So it's definitely not just me!
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I have BIAB 2015. I don't have your problem, #6, with the Real Drum picker window. Mine shows the whole window in a smaller space than yours. More important, (to me), than any of your "bugs", would be the ability to enter more than 4 chords in a bar. There are quite a few songs, (ballads), where 8 chords to the bar would be great. Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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I have BIAB 2015. I don't have your problem, #6, with the Real Drum picker window. Mine shows the whole window in a smaller space than yours. That's because you have a big screen working at a very high resolution. More important, (to me), than any of your "bugs", would be the ability to enter more than 4 chords in a bar. There are quite a few songs, (ballads), where 8 chords to the bar would be great. Ray Yes, that would be great.
Last edited by Cerio; 12/21/14 04:32 PM.
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