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Hi, I have BIAB 2015 (417), audiophile version), When I play a real track styles in a tempo which differs from the real tracks tempo, the sound pops and crackles.
Eg. playing _BELVSOL.STY with 70 bbm instead of 65, it's crackling.
What can I do to avoid it?
Best Stefan
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Some thoughts:
1. It could be BIAB.
Try unchecking "Speed Up Generation of RealTracks" in the Preferences, RealTracks dialog. Also uncheck the box under that, and check the box under that. Experiment...
It is true, this problem tends to be more noticeable at slow tempos.
Try listening to the raw .WAV file for that RealTrack, and see if there are any crackles in that original file. If so, report that to PG Music.
Try another similar RealTrack?
And as always when BIAB isn't running as you know it should: Opt., Return to Factory Settings.
2. It could be your PC.
Reboot your PC and try again. Resources get low etc.
Can you tell us about your PC, for example, what is your Geekbench (free safe utility from the Internet) score? Some lesser-powered machines struggle with RealTracks.
Are many other routines running in memory? Try running Process Monitor (another free utility). And of course close any other running applications.
If crackles happen on all RealTracks, check your sample and bit rates. Should be 16/44.1 on all devices.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Thank you, Matt, for your fast reply!
Reboot did not help. Biab was the first and only program I started after booting.
I do not expect a typical performance issue due to the PC itself. It's a i7-5960X CPU with 32GB, which runs well e.g. with Nuendo and EDIUS.
Tried unchecking "Speed Up Generation of RealTracks", and the box under that, and the box under that: No improvement with the slow style.
But deactivting "Speed Up Generation of RealTracks" avoids crackles with faster styles like _CSWNGMD.STY (140bpm), which even create noise played in its original tempo.
I also tried some other real tracks and did some further experiments. I used real tracks in several older version of Biab and I did not notice crackles. They main change is the upgrade to the audiophile version... Now I enjoy hifi crackles ;-)
Is there any Option to track what biab is doing when starting? Compared to older Versions it seems to take much more time (feels like several minutes). But when I restart Biab, it only takes 10 to 15 seconds.
Strange, at least for me...
Last edited by StefanE; 11/22/15 07:08 AM.
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The audiophile version should be better(!) in this respect, I would think. Using the 'regular' version, the system has to work to uncompress every .WMA file.
Puzzle.
Maybe let PG Music Support have a look. They can remote connect.
Your second question is not related. Yes, do a Help menu, Display Log Text File. You will see entries for Bootup Time in Milliseconds. It is normal to have BIAB take much longer to load after a cold boot or reboot than just restarting BIAB within the same session. We have discussed this and PG Music is aware of it. All I can say is, in my opinion, it used to be worse. I admit with an i7 (not quite as fast as yours) and especially with a SSD boot drive AND with BIAB running from another SSD drive, I don't have any complaints.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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My first question would be what sound card and driver are you using? And what are your latency and audio buffers set to?
If the sound card is less than optimal and the driver isn't designed for the kind of music we do.... you will have problems similar to what you are describing.
I've seen this issue before in the Sonar forums. In fact, it's a very common "new user" problem caused by using factory sound cards and MME drivers.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Hi Guitarhacker, I am using the RME FF802. I use the specific ASIO Driver. The sample rate is set to 44,1 kHz and the buffer size seems to have no Impact on the crackles. Even if I increase it to the maximum of 2048 samples the crackles remain...
Any other idea?
Best Stefan
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In fact, it's a very common "new user" problem caused by using factory sound cards and MME drivers.
Agreed, its a driver thing....
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Drivers and sound card? I don't think so. He says the RealTrack in question works fine at tempo 65 but crackles at 70.
And RME is one of the finest sound cards out there, with superb drivers.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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OK, makes sense, actually the driver info came in when I was typing....
Can I suggest you try the MME driver?
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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You now have to play detective to see if it's being caused by drivers, settings, or if it's actually being printed to the wave in the rendering process. By changing the tempo, it has to be altered from the original form and that process could be introducing artifacts into the wave.
Crackles in the sound playback are usually associated with either the drivers or the settings.
Since you have a decent interface, I would look to see if there's a factory driver update... see if they have released new drivers for that interface if nothing else seems to work. Sometimes, this action will resolve it. Assuming they have released new drivers. If not.... you gotta resolve the conflict in other ways.
Did you try reducing the buffers? Be sure to go both directions and make sure it's audio buffers vs midi buffers. Adjust the latency settings as well.... in both directions. At times, a wrong latency setting will do this.
Does the crackle still appear there if you solo the track? I'm assuming you are using Real Band for the playback. Do you have any other DAW that you could export the tracks to in order to compare? If you don't have another DAW like Sonar or Cubase, use something like Audacity to play the wave from the track.
Next question.... any noise in a track.... from a breath to a string squeak to a click of the lips when opening the mouth, to a crackle..... will appear as a visual "defect" in the wave. When you zoom in, can you see the noise or does the track wave appear "normal" in that respect at that point? AND.... do the crackles happen at the exact same place every time or are they different with each playback?
If it's visual and in the wave... it's being caused by the render to the wave. That's something you'd need to discuss with PG support. If, on the other hand, the waves are clean.... it's a driver or setting.
Last question in this post.... ignoring the crackle.... what happens if you export the project as a stereo wave? During the export rendering, the computer takes it's time to render the file accurately and things that are giving problems due to settings being off are normally rendered correctly and accurately in the export. Play the file in a different wave player to be double sure.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 11/22/15 09:15 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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jazzmandan: Indeed using MME instead of ASIO seems to work. Probably because Biab relies on DXi? STrange (because ASIO is recommend and worked fine all those years before, but if it works it's ok...).
guitarhacker: Good idea to Analyse the export! And as you might expect I did not find any crackles in the wave Editor, no matter what Driver I select.
Thank you very much guys for your support!
Last edited by StefanE; 11/22/15 11:35 AM.
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This sounds more and more like an ASIO buffer issue. Experiment with that some more.
I'm still at a loss to explain why the same song with the same RealTrack plays fine at a slower tempo if it is driver or buffer-related.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Matt: Yes, I would like to understand the root cause, too. I asume it's because of the DXi plug in used by biab to vary the speed of the wave forms.
But after all I am happy that there is a workaround by using MME.
Herb: I just listened to some of your songs in your Upper Room. Respect!
I would like to learn know more about your way of recording these beauttful tracks ...
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Matt, could it be that he is filling the buffer faster with the increased tempo?
When working with a lot of MIDI tracks I have had to increase my MIDI buffer way up to 2000 in Sonar to eliminate crackles in a faster tempo song. I wonder if the same type of thing is happening with his ASIO driver buffers?
Last edited by MarioD; 11/22/15 12:18 PM.
My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Talking about strange baffling frustrating driver issues, see if you can follow this mess... http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=169137 After solving this, I think I am ready to pull the trigger on the Win 10 update of my DAW.  _____________________
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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jazzmandan: Indeed using MME instead of ASIO seems to work. Probably because Biab relies on DXi? STrange (because ASIO is recommend and worked fine all those years before, but if it works it's ok...). A long as you are not inputting any live stuff into BIAB, I think you will enjoy the simplicity and better overall behavior of MME with BIAB versus ASIO. Also this leaves your ASIO free for other concurrent uses as needed.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Mario, you may be right.
Jazzmandan, yes, if you can use MME for BIAB without latency concerns, ASIO is free for other apps; although I've heard of a new version of ASIO that is multi-client.
[I just realized that last sentence is totally unintelligible for someone who is not familiar with digital audio!]
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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..... I've heard of a new version of ASIO that is multi-client.
[I just realized that last sentence is totally unintelligible for someone who is not familiar with digital audio!] Oh how that would be cool. On my DAW.... if I want to work on Sonar, RB, and BB at the same time, as I often do, there is a "proper" sequence to use when starting them to be sure the right program.... Sonar.... gets the ASIO drivers. BB & RB get the MME driver and live is good. Many times I will be working in BB/RB and then decide to import a track to Sonar..... ooops... no available drivers.... close everything after saving and reopen in the proper sequence. Sure would be nice to have multi-client ASIO.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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guitarhacker: Good idea to Analyse the export! And as you might expect I did not find any crackles in the wave Editor, no matter what Driver I select.
If it exports smoothly with no crackles, and I was relatively sure it would..... you gotta look deeper into the settings and driver. My bet is that the settings are still not quite right. Buffers and latency settings can mean the difference between what you are hearing and having a smooth, flawless playback. Since the settings are "out of the picture" when the computer is exporting, in that, the computer can take it's time and doesn't have to provide the audio in real time, that is a good test to see where the problem is originating. Your files are good, export is good, it only happens under certain changes to the original files, so the problem has to be in settings and driver issues. Essentially, the computer isn't able to convert the data and get it to the speakers in real time so to prevent itself from dropping behind, it simply drops some data and you hear that as crackles. TRY THIS ALSO: Freeze the individual track or tracks, after you do the generation. That keeps it from needing to do conversion in real time. This was often a "fix" I used when I first started recording with midi softsynths. By freezing the track, audio was generated, which replaced the live synth, and the synth was shut off or bypassed, freeing up valuable resources in the DAW. I know some folks who actually change their DAW settings based on whether they are recording.... one buffer/latency setting... or in playback/monitor mode.... a different setting. With each setting optimized for the particular job being done. Normally, you should be able to find a setting that allows efficient operation in both modes without needing to change the settings..... it's just that some folks do. Yep... have another look at the settings and the driver. I believe you will find the solution there.
Herb: I just listened to some of your songs in your Upper Room. Respect!
I would like to learn know more about your way of recording these beauttful tracks ...
StefanE... thank you. Just ask any questions you have. I'm willing to share most of the things I do.... it's really not a secret. I have some plugs that I use which employ customized presets, and with those, I don't share the specific plug settings. I will tell you the name of the plug I use. You may not be the only one wanting to know how I do things, and by discussing it on the open forum, everyone can join the conversation if they wish or just sit back, read, and learn. It's taken me years of writing and recording and slamming into brick walls to get to this point. If I can help others get here faster, and hopefully avoid the brick walls and road blocks.... that's good. BTW, there are several others here who are well known for their high quality of writing as well as recording and innovative use of BB & RB. And I also know that quite a few folks are using the same or similar methodology as I do. But, yeah, just start a thread in the Recording and Mixing forum. I check in regularly.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 11/23/15 03:35 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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