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You can have multiple sgu versions of the same song allowing you to exceed the 7 track limitation and also make various changes for specific instruments to either be embellished or simplified by making chord chart changes and exporting the track to a wav file. With the Windows version of BIAB, the various exported wav tracks can be assimilated in RealBand.
For instance, a bass part can be enhanced using slash chords or adding chords to each beat of a measure to accentuate between verses or moving from a verse to a chorus or bridge while other instruments follow the original chord chart.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 02/23/16 05:14 PM.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Hi Charlie, I totally agree with you. It's like you've been reading my mind! This is something that I regularly do. Because of my workflow, doing what you suggest is more likely to occur in Realband (RB) rather than Band In A Box (BIAB), although every once in a while BIAB gets to do it too. Slash ChordsYou mention slash chords... that's one area in which I use it often. Because the slash chord applies to the bass that will be heard, it's usually not necessary in instruments other than the bass. In fact, I've sometimes found that slash chords can cause some instruments to produce less than optimal sounds. (BIAB 2016 now has an option under Song Settings to apply the slash bass only to the Bass track.) Once I have the slash chord bass line generated, I freeze the Bass (in BIAB) and save a new version without slash chords. I always make my file-name descriptive so that when I see it, I know what the file contains; thus my new file will be called something like, songname_no_slash.MGU. - Instrumental exceptions to the above thinking are Piano and Guitar. Because these instruments also play bass notes, it's sometimes necessary to maintain slash chords when generating them so that low frequency audio conflicts are avoided. If I need to do this, I generate the song with the slash chords in place, freeze the bass and any other instrument that needs the slash chord and save the file with a new name.
DissonanceFor those who read this and who are not sure what I mean by 'dissonance', it's a concept that comes from the days of contrapuntal harmony. This is alternatively known as 'counterpoint' and is the predominant technique for harmonising music that existed prior to the invention of chords as we know them (major, minor, seventh, etc.). Johann Sebastian Bach's music is regarded by many as the ultimate achievement in counterpoint. To cut a long story short, in counterpoint, notes are considered in vertical pairs (intervals). When a pair is played/heard, it will either sound good (consonance) or not-so-good (dissonance). In counterpoint, intervals are usually referenced against the bass note. - Consonant intervals are
- (a) perfect 5th
- (b) perfect octave
- (c) perfect unison
- (d) major and minor 3rds
- (e) major and minor 6ths.
- Dissonant intervals are everything else.
- A special note about the perfect 4th... in some contexts this sounds good, in other contexts it has a dissonant quality. For this reason, the perfect 4th is ambiguous and some books treat it as consonant and some as dissonant. My own view is that it's usually more productive to think of it as a dissonant interval.
A principle that comes from the counterpoint period, and is still used by today's composers/arrangers, is that one should generally avoid doubling a dissonance. In other words, a dissonant interval only needs to be played by a single instrument (or section in an orchestra). The reason for this is that a dissonance is very obvious when placed against the consonant backdrop of a major or minor chord. As a result, if too many instruments play a dissonant note, they accent that note excessively and it disrupts the music's texture. (Because an interval is referenced against the bass note, the 'dissonant note' is the upper note of an interval.) **Here's a link to a good Wikipedia article on counterpointI always apply my above understanding of counterpoint to what you have mentioned. As an example... If my song contains the chord G7 (notes = G B D F). I look at the chord harmonically and compare each note of the chord to the bass. I don't worry about what octaves the notes are in. For the purposes of applying counterpoint, it's fine to think of notes occurring within the same octave; the bass note must be the lower note. Applying this to G7 gives me... - G (bass) to G (in chord): this will be either a perfect unison or a perfect octave = CONSONANT
- G (bass) up to B: this is a major 3rd = CONSONANT
- G (bass) up to D: this is a perfect 5th = CONSONANT
- G (bass) up to F: this is a minor 7th = DISSONANT
Because the F in G7 is dissonant against the bass note, I usually only have one instrument playing the G7 chord. The other instruments will play a standard G major chord (all notes are consonant with the bass in simple, 3-note major chords or minor chords). More generally: if I have a song that has 7ths, m9ths, maj7ths, etc, I will generate it. I then decide which instrument I want those extended chords to be played on. Once I've done that, I freeze the track, so as to retain the dissonance, and make all the extended chords into simple major or minor chords (as required). Then I regenerate the track. This means that one instrument in my mix will play the full chord extensions that I originally wrote while the others will play a major or minor versions of the same chord. - The above being said, sometimes I do let extended chords play on all tracks. Before I make that decision, though, I ALWAYS run through the above process. Doing so gives me a choice and I like the option of having a choice because then I know that I'll get the best sound at the end of the mix. BIAB makes the process easy - especially with the "Search and replace" chords function found under the "Edit" menu.
** HERE are some example files (BIAB & audio): 3.5 MB zip file As at the start, Charlie.... you've read my mind! The technique of multiple SGU/MGU files that you suggest is very, very valuable to me in producing music. Regards, Noel P.S. Regarding the examples... the Gm/Bb chord (IIm/IV) needed to stay intact since this is a substitute for chord IV (Bb).
Last edited by Noel96; 03/07/16 09:53 AM. Reason: added a link to some examples
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Noel thanks for the music lesson.
DE
Win 10, 64 bit, love my Lenovo T420, BIAB 2019 (613), RB 2019 (2)
Short term memory is getting shorter.
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Thanks DE.
Charlie is the one that inspired it all, though. He got me thinking about what I do and it occurred to me that maybe someone on here might find some value in my approach.
All the best,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Noel thanks for the music lesson.
DE Great explanation Noel.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Charlie, It wouldn't have happened with your first post! Thanks for the inspiration  I've now added some examples in my post above. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Noel, thanks for posting the download. Interesting stuff.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Noel, Thanks for sharing, sparking lots of thoughts.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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You can have multiple sgu versions of the same song allowing you to exceed the 7 track limitation and also make various changes for specific instruments to either be embellished or simplified by making chord chart changes and exporting the track to a wav file. With the Windows version of BIAB, the various exported wav tracks can be assimilated in RealBand.
For instance, a bass part can be enhanced using slash chords or adding chords to each beat of a measure to accentuate between verses or moving from a verse to a chorus or bridge while other instruments follow the original chord chart. I've been adding tracks by using 2 SGU files the original SONGTITLE.sgu then using saving_as to create - SONGTITLE_ADDTR.sgu switching instruments in the "Band" in this file. Then drag and drop what ever new part I created. Open up the original SONGTITLE.sgu in RB and drag and drop tracks the additional tracks into the RB session. I'm always freezing all tracks after generating the new song arrangement when I have what I want.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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Wow, this is a great topic!
I thank you, too, Noel for the great info.
Like the others, I save multiple versions of my song. Sometimes that's just because I liked a certain style, but it wasn't what I wanted... so I just save it to listen to later. But mostly, I use multiple versions of my BIAB song for the added tracks that I can import into my DAW. Sometimes a style that is totally unlike my original idea will have some instrumentation that sounds great when combined. It's fun to play with.
Well, that was just my 2 cents worth. Trying to be more active on the forum than I have in the past. Lots of great ideas on here! And great, helpful people!
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
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Thanks, Jim. Glad you found it of value.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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I think I'll be trying this. I usually make a few versions by using my chord input first, then force a few instruments or all to simple arrangements in the OverRides settings and save that song with a different name song_simp.sgu . The I sometimes make another with chord entries on more bars and save it. Import to RealBand as many tracks as I like. Then I cut/copy/paste sections to where I want 'em. Example; My bass track might have different sections with normal chords/notes, then a "forced to simple arrangement" section, and more activity in the songs tag using the version with more chord entries (one chord per beat) depending on the song and how the style reacts to the chords entered.
With Noel96's new suggestion It might be interesting to have different, singled out, instruments alternate in playing the 7th, 9th, 4th, etc... while the rest of the instruments relax a bit to allow the individuals to take their turns on elaborating the chords.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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