|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785 |
Well, the folks in Nashville would and I suppose still do, get a pro singer to record demo's of songs that they would pitch to artists, and, I think that is a good idea. A great song sang by a poor vocalist will be a poor song, mostly, on the other hand a great vocalist can bring a poor song some hope. Fact, vocals make or break a song most of the time. BIAB hasnt started singing yet, so, I do the best that I can with my vocals. It does make a difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547 |
I totally agree. Actually on last week's TAXI TV they mentioned how bad vocals can kill a really good song and ruin your chances of getting your songs placed in TV or movies.
The thing is, you don't have to hire a professional to sing your songs. Just network with other musicians, listen to their music and when you find someone who you would like to sing your song ask them if they would do it for you. They may do it just to get their name out there or maybe you can barter with them. Maybe they have a song idea that they need music for and you can provide that service for them in return for them singing on your song.
Last edited by Samuel Davis; 03/05/18 03:09 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Professional Demo singers are a lot cheaper than you can imagine. For a song you intend to shop to publishers, it's money well spent.
Regards,
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,240
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,240 |
BIAB hasnt started singing yet, so, I do the best that I can with my vocals. Actually, it has. There's an integrated option to send notated lyrics to the web-based Sinsy vocal synthesis program and receive a .wav file of the sung lyrics. Not that you'd want to use it for your demos, even if it didn't have a strong Japanese accent. But if you have no other options... it's an option.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,881
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,881 |
Well, the folks in Nashville would and I suppose still do, get a pro singer to record demo's of songs that they would pitch to artists, and, I think that is a good idea. A great song sang by a poor vocalist will be a poor song, mostly, on the other hand a great vocalist can bring a poor song some hope. Fact, vocals make or break a song most of the time. BIAB hasnt started singing yet, so, I do the best that I can with my vocals. It does make a difference. You might think so, but nope.... not true. Having a good vocalist is true. Yes, it helps to have a singer who sounds like the artist you're trying to pitch for. Or at least one that sounds pro and not your cousin who sings in the choir once a week. Often, a great song will shine through the quality of the recording or the production. However, a great singer, no matter how good they are CAN NOT sing well enough to make a poorly written song sound like a hit. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. The best advice I would offer is that BEFORE you spend the money on a "good singer".... work on the song. If it's a first draft and you think this is the next big hit for some super star artist.... pause and get some other opinions. DOn't ask your friends or the folks on internet music site forums. Most of them don't know what a good song is from the writing point of view. Get with some writer specific places.... forums where song writers with a track record hang out, and get feedback from there. Submit your rough version of the song, with a note that it's a work in progress to places like the TAXI forum (it's free to join the forum)..... or join and submit to the screeners. They do evaluations if you ask for it. Or another place is the Nashville Songwriter's Association International. They claim to have staff to evaluate your music who have written the hits you have heard. Only when you get positive feedback from them .... understanding that each person who listens as an evaluator will have a different opinion..... would you possibly think about hiring a pro to sing it. If you hire a pro right up front and then realize that the song has serious musical or lyrical issues, you have to rehire the pro to sing it again. And yeah... you can get demo singers cheap (relatively speaking) who are working the demo circuit in Nashville waiting on their big break. Trisha Yearwood and Garth Brooks both worked as demo singers in Nashville before their big break. First... get your song right.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,007
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,007 |
It's always such an interesting topic! Good vocals versus the strength of the writing for the song. As a listener, what is being said and the story behind the lyrics can matter a whole lot more to me, but sometimes, more minimal lyrics with a really great vocal and overall catchy sound can be all it takes for me to want to keep listening to a song and add it to my favourite's list.
I think it really depends on the song itself, or the artist and their personal flare and style, but I also think that a well written song can go pretty far even if the vocalist is not quite on the same level as the actual song writing.
I think at the end of the day pitching a song, no matter what, is always going to be a difficult and exhausting process, especially in a place like Nashville. But you always have to keep trying! You never know when your chance might come along.
Last edited by Ember - PG Music; 03/08/18 07:31 AM.
Cheers,
Ember
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,158
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,158 |
I think Ember well summed it up in her second paragraph.
If a vocal has soul then I'm in - for multiple genres. I could listen to some vocalists sing the proverbial telephone book and enjoy it. FWIW I tend to pay attention to the lyric only after a few bars of hearing what's happening with the vocal. If the heart/soul is there I can listen to a very average (but not "pitchy")singer and still enjoy it.
As far as pitching goes the only way we even approximate that is to throw some songs out at Songtradr and Crucial Music. Material that we've done because, well, it's what we want to do. If somebody else likes it or, heaven forbid, wanted to license it that's icing on the already fun cake. In reference to Herb's post I agree and so do a host of others that if you are "pitching" your material needs to be at the highest level of production that you can do or afford to outsource. Heck, just submitting a song that is several db's below today's "new normal" could cause a listener to hit the skip button rather than raising the volume.
And a huge two cents.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785 |
All of you guys have great takes on this, giving so many good points of view. I tend to agree with A&R people who will say they can tell a good song within the first couple of bars. Pretty much true, if it doesn't hook me pretty quick it aint going to happen and I am thru listening to it. On to the next.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298 |
Pitching a song is an interesting subject to me. It's typically talked about in a vague way. Pitching to who? If you are pitching to or for a specific artist, your song better sound like that artist. A great song that's wrong for an artist, just isn't going to happen. If you are pitching to more of a group of possibilities, you would still want it to sound like what they are going TO BE, not so much where they've been already. THAT can be a fine line. Of course, you can pitch to projects, or reps. Just many different opportunities. My point is, it's good to know what opportunity you are going for. I've heard it said, many times, that they can "hear" how good of a song it is without you putting much into it. No need to hire a singer, or have the music produced. If you hear that from someone, I would question how old that advice is. Of course, there are exceptions, and everyone has a story of those situations, HOWEVER, right now, most companies are trying to do as little as possible. Sometimes, taking out the demo singers vocals and replacing ONLY that vocal with the artists vocal. All music, instruments and backing vox, are used AS IS. As far as a demo singer, it is NOT necessary. I will give you perspective from a conversation I overhead in the studio. "Listen to this. They guy didn't even get a decent singer. I mean, come on! You can't spend a little money to make your product stand out and sound great, but that's what you're asking me to do? PASS! If you don't believe in it; why the hell should I?" He picked the next song from the PILE he had to listen to. I know not everyone is that way; but some are. I've never heard someone say "They really should have gone with a worse singer. This one is sounds good, unfortunately." My point is this. Make it sound the best it can WITHIN your budget...whatever that is. Do NOT let that hold you back though. Just don't be lazy. Don't cut corners. They can tell. Have confidence and competence in what you do. What you lack; work hard at and develop. It takes time; but it's worth it. There has been some GREAT advice given in this thread. More is given if asked. So keep asking questions. I know for a FACT there are some people that know their...I'll say, "stuff" on this forum. Reach out to them IF you are serious. Be open to learning. It's rare that you are able to (and I hope they don't mind me saying this) listen to a song by someone like Floyd or Tom or many others...and study them. THEN IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS CAN ASK THEM! What?!?! Honestly, that's crazy cool! I'll stop rambling now; but I could go on for a while.  Another great topic by the OP. Thanks for opening the discussion.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,052
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,052 |
Hear To Learn,
Thank you for adding your thoughts based on real world experience. There are a lot of gems inside your post.
This thread has been a conversation that I've enjoyed reading. Way to go, everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,881
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,881 |
To add a bit to HTL's post.... yep, I had the opportunity to hear the "demo" version of a country song that was a #1 hit for a band back in 2008 or so. The demo version could have easily been on the radio and everything about it was copied by the artist/band who charted it to #1. Even the introduction and fills, and the singer on the demo was a talented singer.
Indeed, you have 15 seconds to grab a screener's ear. They don't have all day to listen to the full song. Hence the advice to keep intro's short and get to the chorus before 60 seconds. If your intro is over 15 seconds, there's a good chance the screener hits the fast forward to the next song. You literally have to have them captivated within that time of 15 seconds or so if you expect them to hang with the song long enough to get to the chorus. And when they hit the chorus they have to think to themselves it was worth the wait.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,299
Posts802,913
Members40,086
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean