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eddie1261
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Is the alternate title to that Drake song "When I hear crap like this come on the radio I turn it off?
We should all pool our money and start a radio station with the call letters KRAP.
"When you want this crap, tune in to KRAP".
ON topic, I too would like to hear the staffers write some songs with their own product. What better way to learn and experience what the user side of the screen sees. I am sure many of them DO write. Wouldn't it be the perfect irony if they used Garage Band?
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I'll wait for it. Here is my prediction for what will happen. 1-Someone will do a song that's no where near what this song is, but act like it is every bit as good...yet you put it to the test with true listeners of this type of music and it wouldn't stand the test. -OR- There will be plenty of excuses as to why it won't happen. Not wanting to waste time, ...blah, blah, blah. I think the people who could do a song to this level (I don't mean charting) I mean truly hitting this type of sound are few if any. And calling it crap is a cop out by people who couldn't do it IF they tried. lol Now, I'm not doubting the program's ability to do something along these lines. It could be done. It's like the people who say old country is just "your dog and wife leave and you cry in your beer." Or the people who say current pop country is just "pick up trucks, moonlight, and sugar shakers." Far from it on both accounts. That being said, the song posted is one of many on the charts right now. There are multiple charts and a lot of variation in them...and they are changing all the time. Good luck in nailing that sound. I truly wish you the best. And now back to the OP. PG staff, I would LOVE to hear what you are doing. I could care less if it sounds like charts or it's free form jazz. I'm all in and all behind ya! 
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/27/18 07:11 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Wouldn't it be the perfect irony if they used Garage Band? Sorry I was posting while you were. Anyway, THAT would be funny. Or maybe demonstrate what others have said about using a number of tools to accomplish the job. Still funny though. Nice observation.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Do you have an example of 2018 music that BIAB can't do?
I'm not doubting you, but I don't listen to much radio and would like to have a listen to a song or two. I don't think I said it can't although I have serious doubts since no one has done it! But perhaps HTL is correct in one of these posts where he suggests it is the people and not the program that have the limitations. I'd just love to hear an example of something modern that was built with BIAB. If you wanna "have a listen to a song or two" check out this site. I've heard they update it fairly often with modern music! https://www.billboard.com/
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Oh yeah...for the record. I'm no Drake fan. Not.At.All.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I'll wait for it. Here is my prediction for what will happen. 1-Someone will do a song that's no where near what this song is, but act like it is every bit as good...yet you put it to the test with true listeners of this type of music and it wouldn't stand the test. -OR- There will be plenty of excuses as to why it won't happen. Not wanting to waste time, ...blah, blah, blah. I think the people who could do a song to this level (I don't mean charting) I mean truly hitting this type of sound are few if any. And calling it crap is a cop out by people who couldn't do it IF they tried. lol Now, I'm not doubting the program's ability to do something along these lines. It could be done. It's like the people who say old country is just "your dog and wife leave and you cry in your beer." Or the people who say current pop country is just "pick up trucks, moonlight, and sugar shakers." Far from it on both accounts. That being said, the song posted is one of many on the charts right now. There are multiple charts and a lot of variation in them...and they are changing all the time. Good luck in nailing that sound. I truly wish you the best. And now back to the OP. PG staff, I would LOVE to hear what you are doing. I could care less if it sounds like charts or it's free form jazz. I'm all in and all behind ya! Well said! #1 has happened here before.
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Wouldn't it be the perfect irony if they used Garage Band? Ok, this cracked me up.
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#2 is even worse than #1!! I guess that's why it only made it to #2  If those two songs are good examples of 2018 music that you are saying cannot be created with BIAB, then I would tend to agree with you. Not BIAB by itself anyway. Shows how out of touch I am with the current state of "music" 
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Well, if that's modern music BIAB could do that EASILY! Not with its excellent styles and real tracks, but with its loop ability. Find the right loops for percussion and that recurring 2 chord keyboard ditty, then add heavily pitch corrected vocals and you could have something in the same ball park. IF you want to play in that ball park. BIAB exists on a musical plane that is much higher than what is required for today's billlboard hits. Maybe there should be a new product called BIAB LITE that includes only the looping capability and maybe a DJ playback module. Then the young audience can get sucked in by an environment they can grasp easily, and then accidentally learn how to use the rest of BIAB to make real music. My 2 cents. YMMV.
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That type music is all loops. Done in a Loop-based DAW.
If that is the type music you want to do, buy FL Studio. Or at least, Acid Pro. And a bunch of hip-hop loops. And... don't forget you need to be able to WRITE that type music.
Expecting BIAB to do that is like trying to hammer a nail with a SAW.
It's the wrong tool.
Why keep insisting it should change to cover that?
It is a miracle that BIAB does what it does. No need to dilute that with functionality that is addressed SPECIFICALLY by other tools.
Why not start another thread.
Give an example of a song that you are considering.
Put out a challenge to see if anyone can duplicate that sound with BIAB.
Or have a discussion about why it can't.
And if it even SHOULD.
Or post an example of something you've done in an attempt to "get there"...
Then we can all discuss what might help you, or what you are missing...
Last edited by floyd jane; 04/27/18 09:36 AM.
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Yes, you might be able to do it with loops. But loops is pretty much an add on to BIAB, there are many programs out there that do loops much better than BIAB does going back to the original ACID program that came out when, 2001 or so? Edit: oops, was typing at the same time as Floyd
Last edited by BlueAttitude; 04/27/18 09:30 AM.
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That type music is all loops. Done in a Loop-based DAW.
If that is the type music you want to do, buy FL Studio. Or at least, Acid Pro. And a bunch of hip-hop loops. And... don't forget you need to be able to WRITE that type music.
Expecting BIAB to do that is like trying to hammer a nail with a SAW.
It's the wrong tool.
Why keep insisting it should change to cover that?
It is a miracle that BIAB does what it does. No need to dilute that with functionality that is addressed SPECIFICALLY by other tools.
Why not start another thread.
Give an example of a song that you are considering.
Put out a challenge to see if anyone can duplicate that sound with BIAB.
Or have a discussion about why it can't.
And if it even SHOULD.
Or post an example of something you've done in an attempt to "get there"...
Then we can all discuss what might help you, or what you are missing...
Thanks for this Floyd. I have watched a video today on Ableton live which is looped based and now, thanks to you I know what “acidizing” your tracks is... so that the looped based DAW knows what key your sample track is in and how many bpms. It can then “warp” your track to suit the tempo and key of your project. What I don’t understand is whether these types of songs have any chord progression at all or do they all just work around the root? Info is appreciated.
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Out of respect for the OP, much of this should all be under a different thread. Not blaming, I'm a big part of that problem and trying to fix that.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/27/18 10:03 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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That type music is all loops. Done in a Loop-based DAW.
If that is the type music you want to do, buy FL Studio. Or at least, Acid Pro. And a bunch of hip-hop loops. And... don't forget you need to be able to WRITE that type music.
Expecting BIAB to do that is like trying to hammer a nail with a SAW.
It's the wrong tool.
Why keep insisting it should change to cover that?
It is a miracle that BIAB does what it does. No need to dilute that with functionality that is addressed SPECIFICALLY by other tools.
Why not start another thread.
Give an example of a song that you are considering.
Put out a challenge to see if anyone can duplicate that sound with BIAB.
Or have a discussion about why it can't.
And if it even SHOULD.
Or post an example of something you've done in an attempt to "get there"...
Then we can all discuss what might help you, or what you are missing...
Thanks for this Floyd. I have watched a video today on Ableton live which is looped based and now, thanks to you I know what “acidizing” your tracks is... so that the looped based DAW knows what key your sample track is in and how many bpms. It can then “warp” your track to suit the tempo and key of your project. What I don’t understand is whether these types of songs have any chord progression at all or do they all just work around the root? Info is appreciated. It depends on the type music you are doing. Some rap has no more than beats. But many also have at least a bass track - and, therefore, COULD be considered to be using chords. They often have other synth lines happening, too (following some chord pattern). Modern Pop music is more "music loops" based. A repetitive note patern or chord pattern - pasted over and over... Watch the video that Bob (90dB) posted in the recording forum... http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=462666#Post462666Pay attention to how he plays a quick pattern and then pastes it a number of times to create the verse. Then something else to create the chorus - but that can be the same thing. He does the same thing will vocal loops. A "loop" can be many different things. I've used short guitar chord loops to create "a bit different sound" (listen to my song "Grow Up" and you will hear a repeating guitar pattern to start... those are loops - pasted over and over...) I tried Ableton once. I found it to be the most UNITUITIVE DAW I had ever tried. I've use Sony Acid Pro (it was my DAW before I switched to Studio One) - it is VERY intuitive - MUCH easier I think. I had a demo of FL Studio a long time ago. I think it would be a good one, too..... You should be able to learn to make "beats" in almost any DAW - as long as it has a MIDI grid... That is where you need to start. If you cannot make interesting BEATS, you'll likely have a hard time making "modern" music...
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Thanks for this Floyd. I have watched a video today on Ableton live which is looped based and now, thanks to you I know what “acidizing” your tracks is... so that the looped based DAW knows what key your sample track is in and how many bpms. It can then “warp” your track to suit the tempo and key of your project. What I don’t understand is whether these types of songs have any chord progression at all or do they all just work around the root? Info is appreciated.
Hi Joanne, if your loop is say a C chord your can change that to a F, D, G etc. What you can not do with it is to have it play say a Cm, or Bb6 etc. It can only play a major chord. If your loop is a C-F-G7 progression then you can change it to a D-G-A7, G-C-D7, etc but again you can not make anything else but a I-IV-V7 progression. This differentiates Acid loops from RTs and that is a big difference!
Last edited by MarioD; 04/27/18 10:25 AM.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Would everyone be cool we move the loop based music discussion to a new thread? There is some great info coming in from from it. I'll copy and paste it, if that's ok?
I just feel THIS original topic is important and would like to see if anything comes from it.
Thoughts?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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All of my files are covers and most are “standards”. I think I have some very nice examples and so do my audiences. However I cannot post them here.
I would love to share with those who are interested because I have many thousands of hours invested in what I have created.
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That type music is all loops. Done in a Loop-based DAW.
If that is the type music you want to do, buy FL Studio. Or at least, Acid Pro. And a bunch of hip-hop loops. And... don't forget you need to be able to WRITE that type music.
Expecting BIAB to do that is like trying to hammer a nail with a SAW.
It's the wrong tool.
Why keep insisting it should change to cover that?
It is a miracle that BIAB does what it does. No need to dilute that with functionality that is addressed SPECIFICALLY by other tools.
Why not start another thread.
Give an example of a song that you are considering.
Put out a challenge to see if anyone can duplicate that sound with BIAB.
Or have a discussion about why it can't.
And if it even SHOULD.
Or post an example of something you've done in an attempt to "get there"...
Then we can all discuss what might help you, or what you are missing...
Theoretically, Floyd is correct. However, Biab is not a theory and I've found a way to create an original 'in the style of current hits' of nearly any of today's biggest hits using Biab. There are two additional components to commercially finish your song after creating it in Biab. They require the song to be partially being completed in a DAW for best results. Special effects on tracks such as echo, delay, doubling are best done in a DAW. Secondly, A vocalist should be an individual versed in the style for best results and the most current vocabulary..... Today's music relies heavily on samples and loops. Samples come from everywhere including from current commercial hits on CD's. Samples are compiled into loops and are unrecognizable to the works they're taken from One loop can be comprised from 4-5 songs and are pitch-shifted and time stretched to mesh with songs so disparate, not being from the same genre, not in the same key or tempo. From this merged audio, the song's key, tempo, beat , chords and melody are determined. Additional sounds, melodies, effects ebb and build throughout the song and vocals are layered over the music. Sometimes vocal effects add to the beats, riffs and phrases of the song. Biab is conducive to working with loops and is a great place to gather samples. There are hundreds if not thousands of hours of pristine audio to sample with nearly any instrument western civilization uses. However, Biab offers tools that allow one a quicker, less laborious method to create a 'Today's Sound' song. The answer occurred to me this morning and I went on YouTube and a quick search found some videos that proved my theory to be correct. (at least to me) I'm going to first link to a YouTube video showing a current song made with a Keyboard Workstation style and then show how I did the same thing by creating my style using Biab. Here's the deal step by step. Today's pop, hip hop, RnB, House music and more is for the most part programmed music. I recently purchased a Yamaha PSR s670 Workstation/Arranger Keyboard. I've been on Youtube watching tutorials relearning and refreshing my programming skills and familiarizing myself with the new keyboard. I've heard a lot of modern music. Below, in one video, the artist, created a style, added it to her library and used it to record cover an older song that's been remixed and released this year, by Arkadiy Gabana & Alex Dolce. Used a style to compose a cover. Sounds familiar doesn't it?Here's the links to both songs. Cheri Cheri Lady 2018 Release "Cheri Cheri Lady" Modern Cover using a PSR style This led to my theory that I should be able to choose a current hit song, download a quality midi file and use that midi file and Biab sounds to replace the bad sounding GM sounds to create a quality sounding cover of the hit song. This worked. So, from this current song that I generated in Biab using the best sounds I have available, I converted that current hit song into a Midi Style using the Biab Style Wizard. BIAB Style Wizard Video That worked too. Next, I imported another midi file with a chord progression I liked. I stripped the melody from the midi file and made some changes to the chord progression, added some midi riffs from another midi file and a RealTrack. I selected my new midi Song Style I created in Biab Style Wizard and updated the GM sounds with better sounds I have available and generated my original song chord chart. It worked except when I render it, I lose all of the F5 Bar setting changes I made of mutes/ Back to normals, and gain changes. So, I exported the individual files to Studio One 3.5 Pro DAW and will arrange and render the song from there. Bottom line, this method works for covers or originals and by using quality midi files,the results are quite acceptable and the Midi file does all of the complex development and the project can be done in Biab.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 04/28/18 11:13 AM.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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eddie1261
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Biab offers tools that allow one a quicker, less laborious method to create a 'Today's Sound' song. I believe it does as well, but you are not likely to see if come from a 67 year old man like me. I am not a "today" person. I am a WAY back when person. I would never put effort into making any kind of music I don't like. Geeze it took me 35 years to accept country as viable!! Give me a couple more years to get all the way to rap with the **** and the ***** every other word. I don't call women and black people the names they are called in those songs, so it would also be badly out of character for me to try. To think more about it, we have seen what we used to call "soul music" morph into a homogeneous category that includes rap, funk, p-funk, and anything with a beat. Soul music when I was a kid was James Brown and The Temptations. Funk was Earth, Wind & Fire and The Average White Band. That has all become one, much the way the line between rock and country is disappearing. What the "we" level people mainly can't really do is out-produce the big guys. Mutt Lange and Matt Serletic do not quake in their cowboy boots when they hear my name. In fact I am pretty sure Matt Serletic will never even hear my name unless I take a job as a valet car parking guy at a restaurant in Santa Monica, and that would only be for the lawsuit after I wrecked his car. But Joe Cocker, Matchbox 20, Cher, Rob Thomas, and Collective Soul know him, so..... But to topic, how about if we start a letter writing campaign to PG and ask him to encourage his employees to post their own work. Maybe make it a contest and the winner, as judged by the user base, can have July 1st off. Oh? That's a Canadian holiday anyway? Sorry guys.
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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