PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums PowerTracks Pro Audio VSTi, no sustain on MIDI drums

I'm using a VSTi plug-in to play some soundfont drum samples I bought a while back. The problem is that PT is playing the MIDI notes literally with no sustain, so it cuts off the end of the drum samples. Is there a way to get PT to play the whole sample without cutting it off?

The problem is that the VSTi is responding to note-off commands, which is normal for most instrument samplers. What you need is a dedicated drum sample player which just triggers the sample and lets it play to the end. There are lots of good free ones available - try this for starters.

www.vstplanet.com

The only other solution I can thinks of is to edit the midi notes to increase their duration. (Tedious)

ROG.

Any suggestions on a good one to use? Problem is the free ones have very little description of what they do, and little or no documentation comes with them.

Most of the searching around I've done suggests using expensive stand-alone software like addictive drums, bfd, or superior2. All I need is something that plays drum soundfonts well.

SoftDrum Synth is one that I've used in the past and it seems pretty good.

Check it out on this page-

http://www.vstplanet.com/Instruments/VST_Drums.htm

ROG.

EDIT - if you download it and need any help setting it up, just get back to me.

Thank you for your reply. I did try out SoftDrum last night and was not able to get it working with their sample drums. The documentation is quite confusing. The Sonic Implants soundfont I'm using has 12 different drum sets, and it seems like it would be a real chore using an editor to break out every drum set separately (or as in their supplied samples also breaking out each drum from each drum set).

On a positive note I was able to get some success using the free Cakewalk SFZ VSTi soundfont player. It did play the drum samples without chopping off the ends. However the mix of the drums seemed "off" with the snare drum being way too far up in the mix. I might have to do some more searching around for some more general VSTi soundfont players that allows for mixing of each individual note. I haven't tried SFZ+ yet but that one seems to have more features.

I realize that you've invested in soundfonts and so you obviously want to get them working, but I've always found it easier to work with wav samples. They usually come as individual samples, plus it's easier to make up your own sounds.

There are lots of good VSTi drums which play wav files, so if you're still having problems and decide to go down that route, get back to me and I'll provide some more info.

ROG.

Most Drum Kits require nurturing as many do not quite do what you want. VSTi Drum machines usually contain the ability to change parameters internally and may not obey the Midi volume or velocity data contained in the Drum Track. Drum Soundfont Banks, also differ and may provide what you are looking for without editing. To edit Sf Banks or others, use Edit > Split Midi Drums into individual instruments. Now you can check each track, firstly, to see that all the tracks have sounds allocated. Secondly, because all the individual tracks are using Channel 10, it is necessary to adjust the relative volumes by changing the Velocity levels using Edit > Change Velocities.

Once happy with the overall sounds, multiple tracks can be recorded to wav files separately or in combinations to benefit from Audio effect differences.

Also, in extended format, you can mix and match by allocating different SF Banks/Vsti to the individual instruments. I use BFD but my sound set doesn't include Latin instruments for which I use a specific Latin SF.

I hope this helps.

thanks for the replies. My understanding of soundfonts is limited, but aren't soundfonts is just an envelope for a collection of wav files? It might be possible then to break out the wav files separately.

related thread may be of interest -
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=378245&an=0&page=0#Post378245

I appreciate your time in replying to my posts. I'm not keen on building up a drum kit on my own from WAV files because it looks very time consuming and I'm not good with MIDI mapping. All that being said, after searching thoroughly I went and bought Ezdrummer and have been playing around with that on Powertracks. It's working pretty good but I'm having a few problems:

1. When I load the Ezdrummer configuration window from Powertracks I can't hear anything being played in the configuration window. (This also happens with other VSTi's I've used)

2. When I'm playing a MIDI drum track in Powertracks with Ezdrummer some of the drum notes don't always play, but other times they do. For instance it often completely ignores the toms and plays just the bass, cymbals, and snare.

3. Ezdrummer has a track browser where you are supposed to be able to drag a MIDI file right into the MIDI track of the DAW. When I do this it imports the MIDI notes ok in to the bar but then it also erases every MIDI note that came before that bar.

Ezdrummer isn't something I've worked with, so hopefully someone else will pick this up from here. Still, let's see what can be done.

1) You probably need to be using ASIO drivers for this, not MME. Ask us again if you need more info on ASIO.

2) Sounds like there's a limit on the number of notes it will play at the same time (polyphony). There might be a setting for this somewhere.

3) No idea.

ROG.

Iam using EZ Drummer with realband. I think power tracks is similar enough to try and help you.

1.In midi setup there is a checkbox to re-route midi playback to default synth. This may need to be checked or unchecked depending on whether you are using a single synth or have assigned a specific synth to one or more tracks.

2.Ez Drummer is set up so that it will respond correctly to a GM file. Are you referring to the same midi file not always playing all the drum notes, or different midi files? If you are using files taken off the web you may find that the drum mapping does not match. Piano roll will allow you to re-assign the notes to the correct keys.

3.Dragging and dropping the grooves onto a realband track behaves the same way. Here is the work around:
Alternate between two tracks... Drag a groove to the first track, Drag the next groove to the second track and then copy paste to the first track. The grooves must be dragged to an empty track or it will erase the previous data. I believe this a problem specific to realband.

If you are having trouble with vst's,some more info on your setup will enable more people to give you some help.

Bobby..

Hi bobby, I'll check out your solutions. Thanks a great deal. As for the MIDI tracks I'm using... they are the ones that came with Ez Drummer. Maybe I'll just have to play with it some more. It seemed like it was a glitch to me. The toms wouldn't play, and then if I made some change like opening and closing the VSTi configuration window suddenly they would start playing again.

As for the original soundfont discussion, I was able to use a program called sf2comp to extract all of the WAV files from the soundfont. It also generated a text file with all of the soundfont assignments. For example, here's one of the drumkits:

PresetName=KickQ2 & YamaMaple1
Bank=128
Program=0

Instrument=Snare-YamahaMaple
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127

Instrument=Kick-YamahaEQ2
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127
L_initialAttenuation=100

Instrument=Toms-YamahaThinhead
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127
L_initialAttenuation=60

Instrument=Hats-Paiste
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127
L_initialAttenuation=240

Instrument=Ride-ZildjianK
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127
L_initialAttenuation=220

Instrument=Crash-15"ZildjMed
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127
L_initialAttenuation=260

Instrument=Crash-17"ZildjCust
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127
L_initialAttenuation=330

Instrument=Splash-12"Zildj
L_LowKey=0
L_HighKey=127
L_LowVelocity=0
L_HighVelocity=127
L_initialAttenuation=330

GlobalLayer
GL_startAddrsOffset=
GL_endAddrsOffset=
GL_startloopAddrsOffset=
GL_endloopAddrsOffset=
GL_startAddrsCoarseOffset=
GL_modLfoToPitch=
GL_vibLfoToPitch=
GL_modEnvToPitch=
GL_initialFilterFc=
GL_initialFilterQ=
GL_modLfoToFilterFc=
GL_modEnvToFilterFc=
GL_endAddrsCoarseOffset=
GL_modLfoToVolume=
GL_unused1=
GL_chorusEffectsSend=
GL_reverbEffectsSend=
GL_pan=
GL_unused2=
GL_unused3=
GL_unused4=
GL_delayModLFO=
GL_freqModLFO=
GL_delayVibLFO=
GL_freqVibLFO=
GL_delayModEnv=
GL_attackModEnv=
GL_holdModEnv=
GL_decayModEnv=
GL_sustainModEnv=
GL_releaseModEnv=
GL_keynumToModEnvHold=
GL_keynumToModEnvDecay=
GL_delayVolEnv=
GL_attackVolEnv=
GL_holdVolEnv=
GL_decayVolEnv=
GL_sustainVolEnv=
GL_releaseVolEnv=
GL_keynumToVolEnvHold=
GL_keynumToVolEnvDecay=
GL_reserved1=
GL_startloopAddrsCoarseOffset=
GL_keynum=
GL_velocity=
GL_initialAttenuation=
GL_reserved2=
GL_endloopAddrsCoarseOffset=
GL_coarseTune=
GL_fineTune=
GL_sampleModes=
GL_reserved3=
GL_scaleTuning=
GL_exclusiveClass=
GL_overridingRootKey=
GL_unused5=

So it lists all of the particular drums used in that particular drum kit. The text for one of the drums, say the Kick-YamahaEQ2 is this:

InstrumentName=Kick-YamahaEQ2

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2ff2(L)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=111
Z_HighVelocity=127
Z_pan=65036

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2ff2(R)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=111
Z_HighVelocity=127
Z_pan=500

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2mf3(L)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=79
Z_HighVelocity=110
Z_pan=65036
Z_initialAttenuation=60

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2mf3(R)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=79
Z_HighVelocity=110
Z_pan=500
Z_initialAttenuation=60

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2mp2(L)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=60
Z_HighVelocity=78
Z_pan=65036
Z_initialAttenuation=140

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2mp2(R)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=60
Z_HighVelocity=78
Z_pan=500
Z_initialAttenuation=140

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2pp2(L)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=0
Z_HighVelocity=59
Z_pan=65036
Z_initialAttenuation=240

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2SEQ2pp2(R)
Z_LowKey=36
Z_HighKey=36
Z_LowVelocity=0
Z_HighVelocity=59
Z_pan=500
Z_initialAttenuation=240

Z_Modulator=(NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Linear), initialFilterFc, 0, (NoteOnVelocity,ReverseDirection,Unipolar,Switch), 0

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2ff7(L)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=111
Z_HighVelocity=127
Z_pan=65036
Z_initialAttenuation=15

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2ff7(R)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=111
Z_HighVelocity=127
Z_pan=500
Z_initialAttenuation=15

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2mf2(L)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=79
Z_HighVelocity=110
Z_pan=65036
Z_initialAttenuation=60

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2mf2(R)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=79
Z_HighVelocity=110
Z_pan=500
Z_initialAttenuation=60

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2mp4(L)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=60
Z_HighVelocity=78
Z_pan=65036
Z_initialAttenuation=140

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2mp4(R)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=60
Z_HighVelocity=78
Z_pan=500
Z_initialAttenuation=140

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2pp3(L)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=0
Z_HighVelocity=59
Z_pan=65036
Z_initialAttenuation=240

Sample=YamkickA2NSEQ2pp3(R)
Z_LowKey=35
Z_HighKey=35
Z_LowVelocity=0
Z_HighVelocity=59
Z_pan=500
Z_initialAttenuation=240

GlobalZone
GZ_releaseVolEnv=5245
GZ_scaleTuning=0


It's giving the wav file for different velocities, and I'm assuming the (L) and (R) are referring to the different wavs for stereo, and there's some other information that I don't understand right now. So now on to the question of a VSTi drum plugin for playing these wav files. Which one do you recommend? Does it look like there's enough information in the above text to be able to piece together a kit from the WAV files?

On a positive note I was able to get some success using the free Cakewalk SFZ VSTi soundfont player. It did play the drum samples without chopping off the ends. However the mix of the drums seemed "off" with the snare drum being way too far up in the mix. I might have to do some more searching around for some more general VSTi soundfont players that allows for mixing of each individual note. I haven't tried SFZ+ yet but that one seems to have more features


Hi Bobby again: I think your making a lot of work for yourself. The beauty of the sf2 was that all the parameters(the page & a half you listed) were already mapped and ready to play. I used soundfonts on my last computer with a creative audigy card. On this computer I have the free cakewalk sfz player and only use soundfonts now for a sketch pad. The problem you are having with the snare level may actually be the way sonic implants mixed the kit. The snare waves may need a volume cut. I would stick with the free sfz player since it works for you. I have no problem with it in realband. I think what you need is a "SOUNDFONT EDITOR" The editor that came with the creative card was called "Vienna". This editor would only work with a creative card. There is (or was) a free soundfont editor called "Viena". Try a search and see if it is still available. I think this is the road you should take instead of looking for the magic vst.

As far as your Toms not playing with an EZ Drummer file untill a re-load of the vst..
Check the EZ Drummer Mixer..or more info needed.

Another thought about your snare volume, again Iam using realband,but try..Edit>Change Velocities, then use the filter to change only one note(your snare). Bobby...

I found this article which way explain part of my problem with the soundfont mix being off. Some of the attenuation settings in my 2.1 soundfont differ from modern soundfont standards and are being translated incorrectly:

http://home.exetel.com.au/reimerorgans/ART/Attenuation_Settings.htm

So as an example, if the attenuation setting in the soundfont 2.1 format is 120 corresponding to -12 dB, what is really played in the original format is -5dB, and what sfz is playing is somewhere around -60dB,

and if the setting in the soundfont 2.1 format is 10 corresponding to -1 dB, what is really played in the original format is -0.5dB, and what sfz is playing is somewhere around -5dB

so, there's a HUGE disparity there in the sfz interpetation... the softer sounds are being rendered almost inaudible.

I'm curious about a couple of things now. It there a VST out there that adheres to the Soundfont 2.1 standard to which this soundfont was written? I'm attempting to readjust the levels using an editor.

You should be able to adjust the volume in an editor. You are on the the right track.
One of the Vienna soundfont editors mentioned previously (by others) has this capability.