PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production Setting up backing for two different lead sounds-how?

Dear Everyone.

I write instrumental music - or try to - it's usually gentle, New Agey stuff. So I start off with an oboe - for example - as my lead sound, mix the strings/everything else perfectly to fit the oboe. Then for the second half of the track I want a flute to be the lead sound for a bit of variety.

What I always find is the sounds that were perfectly (HAH - we're talking theoretically here!) EQ'd etc. to go with the oboe now sound totally awful with the flute. If I adjust everything to sound fine with the flute, of course they'll sound awful with the oboe.

Which means I'm ending up with (at least!) two complete sets of backing sounds, one for each lead instrument. Or if I change lead instruments 3 times - even for just a couple of bars - I'm having to have THREE completely differently EQ'd and effected sets of backing sounds, one for each 'lead instrument'.

Now I'm not the world's greatest at doing backing mixing, but if I fight through the pain barrier to get the backing sounds sounding OK with ONE instrument, is there any way I can keep the same backing sounds mix setup for both leads (ignore the third, let's stick to 2) or does there always have to be a completely differently setup set of backing sounds for each lead sound?

I'm using solely VSTs (and plugins/soundfonts maybe, mainly VSTs.)

Yours hopefully

Chris.

Chris....

It sounds like you're over-thinking this. You should not be "EQing the tracks for a specific instrument"... what you should be doing is EQing the various individual tracks to sound as natural for the instrument you are using.

I have found that most samples and even the more primitive patches, sound pretty good to start with. Once you decide to try to make them sound better by EQing them you have altered them. In most cases, when I'm using any sort of instrument in the manner you are describing, there is quite often, NO EQ in the track at all. And generally the only EQ is in my DAW's master buss and it's a very subtle enhancer in certain frequencies only... and it covers the entire mix.... not a specific instrument.

Note: I do use EQ on certain instruments and in the tracks..... but once set, it never gets changed and certainly NOT in the middle of the song. Ex: Drums for more kick and snap in the kick drum and snare, Piano to brighten, bass guitar for a fatter bottom, acoustic guitar to clean it up and brighten..... but the goal is always, always, always to have it sounding natural and real.

Note: My advice is that while you are getting started, do not use a bunch of EQ's in the tracks. Nothing will mess you up quicker if you don't really understand the complex things that are going on and how one EQ in a track can affect a different EQ in another track in the final mix. Your goal to start should be to get a natural sound without relying on EQ in the tracks if possible. Use some EQ in your master buss to shape the entire project as a whole.

Strings should sound like a string section or a solo instrument depending on which one it is. EQ would be used to highlight the qualities.... not to change them to the point that they don't work but with one other instrument. You should be able to use the oboe in the first passage and then simply drop the oboe out and bring in a flute without having to adjust anything regarding the EQ. Your backing tracks should always be consistent regardless of which instrument is currently in the solo spotlight.

Think of how a real orchestra would sound and use that as your starting point for how to set the EQ on everything.

Listen to the music of some of the folks here.... you will notice instruments coming and going but you will also notice that the backing tracks remain the same. If you're changing the EQ on the backing tracks in a song during the song..... unless you're going for some sort of "special effect", simply put, you're doing it wrong.

Start by soloing the strings.... now, remove all the FX.... listen to them raw. Do they need anything to make them sound like real, normal, strings? Use a gentle touch if they do. Now... repeat this with the rest of the backing tracks..... Your goal at this point is natural sounding BUT also to use as LITTLE FX as possible to get there. If you have an EQ that looks like the silhouette of a mountain range..... start over.

Most time you will find that the EQ is fine straight out of the box with very little tweeking required...... but the real issue lies in the levels of those instruments in relation to each other. Learn how to use volume envelopes to adjust the volume of the parts automatically. If the strings are playing louder to support the stronger oboe in the first section.... when the flute comes in later in the song, the string can easily overpower it making you think it's an EQ issue when in fact if you simply dropped the string's volume a few dB and perhaps muted one or more of the other tracks in the backing, space would open up in the song and it would suddenly work amazingly well.

Again... listen to the songs of some of the folks in the showcase and on their websites and notice how varying the volume is really the answer to getting a good mix rather than varying the EQ settings.

Volume envelopes are available in Real Band for your mixing use.

hope this helps you a bit

I'm going to offer a suggestion change the lead settings to fit the backing track. I do use different, Volume, Pan, EQ, Reverb,and other effects for each lead instrument. I think you can leave the backing track alone once you "get it where you want it" if you put the lead instruments on different tracks. One track for each lead instrument. With that done you will be able to adjust each lead instrument/track to fit your one backing track. The following steps outline the track splitting process with file saving precautions.

Save the BIAB file WITHOUT any effects, pan or volume settings I usually name this file SONGNAME_FLAT.SGU. Then, open it up in Real Band, Save this RB file as SONGNAME_FLAT.SEQ extension.

GO to your track with the different lead instruments and DUPLICATE this track 1 time if you have 2 lead instruments. ( 2 duplicates if you have 3).

On the original track SOLO the track turn up the volume to -3db, pan=0 and listen to the track until it changes instruments, rewind a little and listen again and decide the point where you want to switch the lead instrument. Select (mouse click) that point in this track Highlight (hold your mouse button and drag your mouse) to the end of the track. Then Delete that section of the track, using the delete button. Before you go to the next step listen to the tack again. Did you cut off a note too soon? If so go edit, undo erase. Go back and pick the correct point and re-due the deletion. Now save the file AS SONGNAME_SOLOEDIT1.SEQ.

Go to the first duplicated track Line up your mouse in that track at the point where you determined you were switching instruments on the previous track. Now erase everything on this second track from that point to the beginning of the song. Now save the file AS SONGNAME_SOLOEDIT2.SEQ. (If you save the song file in the manner I suggest you will end up with 3 files that allow you to go back and change something if you discover at a later time that you made a mistake.)

I can't do screen shots but look at the following graphic. _=erased data, O = Oboe, V=Violin

Track 1) OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO_____________________________
Track 2 )______________________________________________VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

So now you have 2 separate tracks with the solo instruments that you can tweak to match your one backing track. If you have 3 this method works fine, just duplicate another track in the beginning when you duplicate track 2 and on track 3 erase everything from when the 3rd instrument comes in till to the beginning. Then go back to track 2 and trim the end of that track so it does not play over track 3.

Your 3 tracks would look like this, where X=another lead instrument.


Track 1) OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO____________________________________________________
Track 2)_________________________VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV___________________________
Track 3)_________________________________________________XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Hope this helps.