Hi Experts, Just to continue getting my money's worth in the PG forums this holiday period,and further develop some audio skills...
Is the use of audio Normalisation routine at any point in the mixing>mastering process?
I've been routinely normalising all my audio tracks relative to 0dB up to now,and while it doesn't appear to have degraded any work,I'm just wondering if the more experienced community use this technique?
If not,when and where is the best time to use this?
Cheers,
Neil C Warrington UK
Dell Inspiron 5748 iPad Mini. iRig HD2. BIAB,RB 2019,Cakewalk,Auria Pro,Cubasis,Garageband,Sampletank. Lots of VST,DXi and FabFilter Pro Bundle. Amplitube,BIAS FX. Behringer MS20 Monitors. Several guitars. Always trying to leave the audience wanting less.
I use Audacity always as the next to last step in my process.
I do the best job of mixing that I can in the step before that, carefully watching my meters, and doing the best I can with EQ, also using compressors on certain tracks like bass and drums (or others if they need it.)
Then I will open the export in Audacity. I am looking for a .wav file that looks smooth and curvy (like a, well, wave) and not jagged or ragged with many spikes or transients. I am sure you know the picture I am talking about--it looks more like the image of a drum .wav than a song .wav---it looks "shredded." (The screenshot below gives you an idea of what a mix that needs compression and normalization will look like.) If I see that, I know I have no other choice but to compress and normalize. So I use a mild compression in Audacity (1.5:1), then normalize to -0.7.
Then I will use negative amplification to "trim the hair" of any remaining spikes that will reduce my headroom.
If it does not need compression at this phase, I will normalize it to -0.7 in Audacity before going further. My point is, if it is ragged you have to both compress AND normalize. If the mix looks elegant to the eye, all you to do is normalize, and yes, that is normal.
From here, I proceed to mastering in something like Ozone, or another tool, depending on the genre.
I NEVER boost to 0 dB with the next to last step .wav though. I always want to go into Ozone with a -0.7 mix so the effects used in the mastering tool (you have to have one) have room for transient shaping, maximizing, Eq-ing, etc. That is where you set your threshold.
I sometimes set the threshold to -.1 but most of the time -.2. I just don't think you have to max it out.
For the type of stuff I do, I find you begin to lose nuances when you max it to the limit and I would rather people hear dynamics.
I do not want to compress at the next to last phase unless I have to, because mastering tool presets add compression and I do not want compression times compression. But, if you start with a ragged .wav as your export, you have little recourse because it will be next to impossible to control your dynamics or loudness in the mastering phase before you clean things up a bit.
In the best of all worlds though, I try and mix so that I do not need to do this Audacity compression step before mastering, but it does not always work out that way.
Hope that makes sense.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
I used to always normalise all tracks to 0.00 dB. For BIAB users who read this and don't know what 'normalise' means, the term refers to scaling a waveform (i.e. sound) so that its highest peak reaches 0.00 dB. Most peaks in the wave will be noticeably less than 0.00 dB. Normalising does not change sound integrity if it stays under 0.00 dB; in most cases, it simply raises the volume of the sound.
Then I read somewhere that it's always best to leave a little bit of audio headroom so that if a track has effects added to it, the effect processor has audio 'space' to work in so that it can maintain the integrity of the sound while adding, and after adding, the effect. In a number of articles, I came across the minimum recommended normalising value of -0.3dB and so I started using that.
These days, I normalise to -3.0 dB. I chose this value randomly after watching a friend mixing a song he had composed -- he is an audio engineer at a nationwide radio station and I noticed that he never normalised to 0.00 dB and always had substantial headroom above (and below) the highest peaks in the audio waveform. Since he is a professional in this field, I took his lesson on-board.
Audio that comes from BIAB mostly needs to be normalised. Wave volumes (that is, 'peak heights') are set by PG Music in a style such that the mixer will always show '90'. This means that some audio, when transferred to a DAW, will be noticeably quieter than other audio. To make it easier to work with these varying-volume audio stems, I always like to increase the height of the wave as it makes both editing and mixing that wave much easier. I'm happy working with -3.0 dB normalisation these days. It gives me a good clarity of sound.
Hi Experts, Just to continue getting my money's worth in the PG forums this holiday period,and further develop some audio skills...
Is the use of audio Normalisation routine at any point in the mixing>mastering process?
I've been routinely normalising all my audio tracks relative to 0dB up to now,and while it doesn't appear to have degraded any work,I'm just wondering if the more experienced community use this technique?
If not,when and where is the best time to use this?
Cheers,
Neil C Warrington UK
Good question. So.... yeah I tend to use it on everything as my LAST step. What it does is pretty simply. You select the level. As most have said they choose 0dB as the reference level. So, normalization looks at the file you are wanting to normalize and it finds the highest peak in the song. It moves that peak to 0dB. It amplifies everything else by the same amount. Nothing is amplified more than anything else, like would happen in a compression level to 0dB for example.
As I understand it, this is how it works. It's never given me any issues. They recommend -3dB for MP3. and Waves can go to 0dB..... BUT.... if you plan to have a mastering house master your song, they normally want around -6dB so they have room to work without squashing anything.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I use normalisation totally differently. When I pull the tracks into my daw (usually Reaper) I normalise all the tracks to -10db to -15db depending largely on the number of tracks. With all tracks playing I then like to be about -6db or less. I have a quick listen . I might renormalise (usually drums and bass) to put them up a couple of dB to have them better in the mix. I then do the mixing. At the end of the mixing process I like to have about -4db to -6db or less for headroom for the “mastering”. The final stage in the mastering chain has a limiter which I use to lift the track to -14 LUFS with a true peak of -1db. This way the songs all come out about the same level, reasonable balanced and ready for use.
In nearly all cases if I pull them into Audacity the songs are at -1db a different way to arrive at the same result.
I often use MP3 files to use when performing I put these through MP3Gain which in a sense renormalises again.
All seems like extra work but IMHO it in fact saves time.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 12/30/1812:18 PM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
I never use the Normalize function anymore. In Studio One there is a way to raise the track level gain by just selecting the event and dragging it up and down. This simply adjusts the volume level of the track without changing the dynamics of the track. It also does not change the Volume fader either. I like to get it around -12db per track and no more than -6db. I always leave headroom for when it is ready to master. Studio One also has a built in plugin called Mixtool that does this to the track as well as phase.
Most DAWs have a gain level knob of some sort for doing this.
Brian
BIAB 2025 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, Mac Mini M4 with Logic Pro 11, Melodyne Studio
Superb range of suggestions,many thanks everyone...and anyone else who wishes to throw in their Two Bob's worth..
I'm quite suspicious now that a problem piece of work I'm dealing with at the moment,also mentioned in this forum(which Brian also offered up some suggestions towards)may be due to the fact that all the guitar stems have been normalised relative to 0dB and that once mixed down,alongside the use of AudioSnap in Cakewalk,may be the cause of the issue.
I've never even considered normalising to a value other than 0dB,so this will definitely on the "To Try" list next time
Not a negative commentary on Cakewalk by the way,which must qualify as freebie of the year,merely my possible erroneous usage of AudioSnap.
Here's to Build 611 taking us to VST nirvana...
Thanks Guys!
Neil Cummins Warrington UK
Dell Inspiron 5748 iPad Mini. iRig HD2. BIAB,RB 2019,Cakewalk,Auria Pro,Cubasis,Garageband,Sampletank. Lots of VST,DXi and FabFilter Pro Bundle. Amplitube,BIAS FX. Behringer MS20 Monitors. Several guitars. Always trying to leave the audience wanting less.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean