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After a few frustrating days, it seems that my EMU 1820M s/c has died. It came on slowly, brief pauses in the sound output, graduating to dropouts and left channel static, then to become complete static. Our own Mac (also a moderator on: http://www.productionforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10979) provided great help. On his nudging and suggestion, I removed and replaced the computer's power supply unit (PSU), which ruled out the PSU as the problem. Looking into the breakout box (Audiodock is EMU's term) I discovered two capacitors that have the tell-tale bulge on the end (which indicates imminent or actual failure). http://www.productionforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10846Since a replacement unit likely costs more than my card is worth (and I can't actually get the exact replacement), and my location rules out easy access to electronics repair shops, I've concluded that a new unit is in order. One suggestion on that website was: http://www.focusrite.com/products/firewire_interfaces/saffire_pro_24_dsp/It's probably pricey, but definitely looks like it would be in the same category as my EMU (I'm a bit gun-shy of Creative Lab products - my first soundcard was a Creative Extigy, and external USB unit that had buggy software - is this common with them?). Does anyone have hands on experience or knowledge with this Focusrite model? Glenn
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OK, I now realize that this soundcard is too new to have many (if any) users - I believe it was announced in June of this year.
But it sure has nice features.
Last edited by Glenn Kolot; 11/09/09 12:47 PM.
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Well that's sort of asking for someones endorsement of a Ferrari. Doesn't really need one. It's Focusrite!
I will highly endorse the MAudio Delta 1010 though. Don't think you'll find anything better for the money>
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Quote:
Well that's sort of asking for someones endorsement of a Ferrari. Doesn't really need one. It's Focusrite!
I will highly endorse the MAudio Delta 1010 though. Don't think you'll find anything better for the money>
Well, I don't know anything about Focusrite - whether they are top notch, mediocre, or just plain expensive.
What is their track record in terms of reliability? And customer support? I had my EMU 1820M for not quite a year, and it was announced it would be discontinued. Three years later, I need a component (there are two cards that go into the computer, and a standalone box that is in trouble), and I'm out of luck.
Yes, I've heard of the 1010. Several on this forum use M-Audio.
Glenn
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Glen, People are getting the Saffire for around $200. I haven't heard bad things about them on other forums. Their mic pre-amps are quite nice but I don't know if that makes it into the Saffire product or not. Try asking your question at a forum where there is a broader view of home recording than here at PG - perhaps try www.gearslutz.com, www.kvraudio.com , etc. You won't find the general 'niceness' of people on those forums that you do here, but they have a different perspective on what home recording is all about that might help you weed out choices. If I recall, you mostly record keyboard tracks with direct outs from your digital piano - correct? If so, you may not need a soundcard with mic pre-amps.
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The 1010lt does play nice in PGProducts, especially RB and PT where you can get full use of all the ports (at the same time).
It is convenient in that you can hook a lot up to it and just select the ports you want to use in the program.
The convertors are older, but still produce nicely, especially in 24 bit
I own two of them, both over four years old and neither has EVER given me an issue
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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That's too bad, Glenn. I've had my 1820M for about 3 years now with no problems at all. If mine died I would look at EMU again. Every product will have problems eventually, your's simply happened sooner than most, I guess. Since you're about to chuck it anyway, I would look for a repair shop that can replace those caps if possible. What have you got to lose as long as the repair price isn't too high? It's not that big a unit, maybe you can make a deal with Mac and send it to him? I bet he could fix it if he's willing.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Glenn,
Would you please detail for us exactly what your recording requirements are? I can't make a suggestion based on what I think you're doing. Also, how much are you willing to spend and what do you want as far as inputs. Finally, what kind of interface are you looking for, Internal, USB, Firewire, or something else.
Thanks,
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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rockstar_not: Yes, I have no need for microphone inputs (I can't sing, and don't have an acoustic piano in part because they are a nightmare to record). But it seems that the more expensive cards have mic inputs. rharv: I've become so used to the onscreen mixer of the 1820M, that I'm looking for something similar - the Focusrite uses the same concept. jazzmammal: Well, mine is four years old, and it worked very well for almost four years - hope this isn't a prediction of things to come for you. The 1820M is in a shop right now, and hopefully they know what they are doing. It was kinda funny - I mentioned that there were three other components (I had disassembled it to find the capacitors that potentially had problems), and the guy asked me how he was going to test it. I smiled and said, that he really didn't want to test it because: (1) there are two cards to install into a computer, (2) software has to be installed and the serial number registered, (3) setup can take at least a couple of hours, and (4) there is a steep learning curve in just setting it up. "OK, he said, then I'll just replace the caps". Righto. If you have trouble with your's, check into: http://www.productionforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10846I'll report back on success or lack of it. Glenn
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Glenn,
What keyboard are you using again? If I recall, it's a Roland, but I don't recall which one.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
Glenn,
Would you please detail for us exactly what your recording requirements are? I can't make a suggestion based on what I think you're doing. Also, how much are you willing to spend and what do you want as far as inputs. Finally, what kind of interface are you looking for, Internal, USB, Firewire, or something else.
Thanks,
Gary
Gary:
Good questions. My needs are actually quite simple:
1. Audio IN/OUT - when I play the piano, Pianoteq generates the sound. I use only one instrument, so don't require multiple INS/OUTS.
2. Midi IN/OUT - for same reasons as above. The piano's midi signal triggers Pianoteq to generate piano sounds.
3. Stable ASIO operation (requires good drivers). Many otherwise good cards don't meet this.
4. Headphone out with volume control.
5. Good AD/DA converters.
6. Would like to have onscreen mixer.
7. Would like PCI - my computer is four years old and isn't PCIe, and I'm not in a hurry to change it.
All of the above were very well provided by the 1820M - which will hopefully be operational by Friday. Although, I'm not counting on it.
My piano is a (polished mahogany) Roland KR-7 http://www.roland.com/products/en/KR-7/index.html
Nice action, good touch. Isn't noticeably different from a good grand (at least to me).
As I've noted before, the piano and computer are in separate rooms (back to back on a common wall). I've run all the cables through the wall and they are not long - typically two metres in length.
The EMU was in the $500 plus range - as I recall, the exchange rate then was about $0.66 CAD = $1.00 US). Today it's about 0.97CAD = $1.00 US. I'm not afraid to lay out a similar sum today, and I'm not going to sacrifice for a few $$.
Firewire would be OK (better than USB?), but it seems that to enable the required throughput, an internal (PCI) would serve better. Besides I have two hole in the back of my computer where the 1820M was (it filled two slots, although one didn't connect directly to the MOBO - it connected to the 1010 card which was in a slot).
Hope that covers everything.
Glenn
PS - they've just released Pianoteq 3.5. Comes in two versions, Standard and Pro. I was part of the beta testing team for the new Pro version, and received a full Pro version no cost to me. It's quite interesting - there are 22 parameters that can be adjusted for each of the 88 notes. Actually this is a bit overwhelming, but can be useful if one likes to re-voice various notes of the piano. Much improved sound engine from version 3.0
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Glenn, As I'm reading this, I need to clarify a few questions. First, are you exclusively using Pianoteq? The reason I ask is because that is a program on your computer. The sounds it generates are being generated internally to your computer, and can be played back by any sound card. Also, they can be rendered as a wave file without use of any sound card, except to play them back. In fact, the following song was recorded using the Pianoteq demo, and rendered directly to my desktop. It was played back on two different sound cards, and sounded the same. I DID NOT use a sound card to record this, it was a direct render from a MIDI file. It would be possible to record your playing as a midi file, and then do the same thing. http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/RootbeerRag.wmaRootbeer Rag. Sounds like Billy Joel playing it to me. About 5.7MB. Since you can record this either as a VSTi or a Stand Alone application, any application that is a VSTi host would allow you to play it. Then, you could configure that application to save it internally as a wave file. What that means is that you can play into the application; Real Band, Sonar, whatever; and record the track as audio, again, without the need of a sound card. This song, Kitten on the Keys (Zez Confrey, played by Sue Kellerman) was recorded using Pianoteq as a VSTi inside of Sonar. www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/Kitten.wmaIf you are also recording the sounds of the Roland, then that makes a difference, because you want the sound of the Roland added to the mix. I'm not sure why you spent $500 on a sound card. From what you're telling me, you didn't need to. Unless I'm missing something, I would recommend the old faithful M-Audio 2496, which has an unbalanced stereo in, an unbalanced stereo out, S/PDIF ins and out, and MIDI in and out. Everything you're telling me says you'll be happy with it. It even has a mixer control panel on screen. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
Glenn,
As I'm reading this, I need to clarify a few questions.
First, are you exclusively using Pianoteq? The reason I ask is because that is a program on your computer. The sounds it generates are being generated internally to your computer, and can be played back by any sound card. Also, they can be rendered as a wave file without use of any sound card, except to play them back.
In fact, the following song was recorded using the Pianoteq demo, and rendered directly to my desktop. It was played back on two different sound cards, and sounded the same. I DID NOT use a sound card to record this, it was a direct render from a MIDI file. It would be possible to record your playing as a midi file, and then do the same thing.
http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/RootbeerRag.wma
Rootbeer Rag. Sounds like Billy Joel playing it to me. About 5.7MB.
Since you can record this either as a VSTi or a Stand Alone application, any application that is a VSTi host would allow you to play it. Then, you could configure that application to save it internally as a wave file. What that means is that you can play into the application; Real Band, Sonar, whatever; and record the track as audio, again, without the need of a sound card.
This song, Kitten on the Keys (Zez Confrey, played by Sue Kellerman) was recorded using Pianoteq as a VSTi inside of Sonar.
www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/Kitten.wma
If you are also recording the sounds of the Roland, then that makes a difference, because you want the sound of the Roland added to the mix.
I'm not sure why you spent $500 on a sound card. From what you're telling me, you didn't need to.
Unless I'm missing something, I would recommend the old faithful M-Audio 2496, which has an unbalanced stereo in, an unbalanced stereo out, S/PDIF ins and out, and MIDI in and out. Everything you're telling me says you'll be happy with it. It even has a mixer control panel on screen.
Gary
Well Gary, you've made some interesting points:
1. I don't use the onboard piano sound of my Roland anymore.
2. Don't know why I had missed that rendering a midi to wave with Pianoteq didn't need the soundcard (rendering isn't done in real time - it takes about half the time as does playing in real time - it's just generating a wave file, so the S/C isn't being used). PT uses the midi commands to supply the piano sounds and obviously doesn't go through the S/C. At one time I played the midi file in real time in PT and recorded the sound with Goldwave, but that's too time consuming. The one advantage of doing this is that I can use the real time effects of the EMU (usually just reverb which is quite a bit more sophisticated than the reverb on PT).
3. How I edit a midi file is by playing it in Pianoteq (to get the sound), and midi editing in Powertracks. All I really need is something that will give half decent sound while I'm listening/editing. You're right - it doesn't require an expensive S/C.
You are correct, the 2496 would probably work for me. Now if I can just find one (I'll check the local Long and McQuade - I did see at least one M-Audio box there today).
Thanks for straightening me out. I needed it.
Just one more question - does the 2496 have a headphone out with volume control?
And again thanks to Mac for his assistance on the Multimedia Production Forums with diagnosing the EMU.
Glenn
Last edited by Glenn Kolot; 11/11/09 12:43 AM.
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Glen, the 2496 does not, nor do any of the other PCI audio cards from M-Audio cards, have a headphone out. These cards are almost always used by folks that have them connected to a mixer of some kind.
PCI cards with headphone outs are somewhat rare from what I recall years ago doing the same research you are now doing. Creative Live series cards had them - along with the Platinum versions that had a great front-panel 'Live Drive' I/O bay with a headphone jack and volume knob for the headphones.
Your needs would likely be better suited by purchase of the same EMU card, or a Creative card or going outboard.
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Scott: That's what I thought - no headphone out on the 2496. I e-mailed EMU about replacing the Audiodock (external box that has the phone connection), and this is their reply: > At this point, our webstore has not been fully setup yet or updated so > we cannot assure if there will be enough stock of an 1820M Audiodock. > Probably, you can try looking something like this in Ebay in the > meantime. When I checked their online store, it appears that they don't have any 1820M Audiodocks - just the 1820. And the one online review of the 1820 doesn't inspire me to stay with EMU: http://us.store.creative.com/EMU-1820-Di...rsReviewsWidgetSo I guess I'll be looking for a while if the repair doesn't work. Glenn
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Glenn, As Scott said, the M-Audio does not have a headphone output. If you aren't running dedicated monitors, try this instead. Hook the Analog output of the sound card to the input of this, and then you can have up to four people listen with headphones at the same time. http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/1233/You can also find more expensive solutions. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Gary:
We were posting at the same time. I could have a look at that box. Yesterday at Long and McQuade, I spent 3/4 hour looking at boxes of audio devices, and never had one salesperson offer any help. Two days before, the "digital piano expert" didn't know that the Roland V-Piano uses physical modeling not samples. Rarely does one find such incompetence as exists at this Long and McQuade outlet. I've been in other LM stores (Edmonton, Calgary) that were great, but this one is mostly staffed by duds.
Glenn
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Glen, I just found the Saffire pro ad in the latest issue of Mix. One thing that it has that has me VERY interested is room simulation capability on the headphone outputs.
I have access to extremely flat frequency response in-ear monitors and the big downfall of mixing with in-ear monitors as with any headphones is that you get an exaggerated sense of panning due to the lack of speaker bleed.
This product is aimed at persons mixing with headphones. I may convince my workplace to pick one of these up.
-Scott
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I still use an 0404 and I love it however it has no headphone out. But what about the 1616 with the MicroDock breakout box? Would that suit your needs?
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Scott:
Now if I can just convince ME to spend the money. What was the price in US$?
Glenn
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