I'm finding myself working more and more with Reaper and I'm trying to get my head around the best way to link in to it. Realtracks, styles, multi-riffs etc remain a unique and critical part of my song writing process and will continue to.
I've tried the export from BIAB/Realband and the VST and basically, it seems that you still need to treat the move to Reaper as a one-off final process as the interactive linkages don't seem to cut it. This limitation, I completely fail to grasp. Also, I suspect BIAB 2019 and the 2019 VST pretty much negate a need to use Realband given the power of Reaper. Of course this could all change in time, but time is of the essence as learning Reaper and iZotope are proving both demanding and rewarding.
Am I missing something?
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
As you probably already know, I've been using Reaper for many years.
For my last few songs, I've worked in BIAB and then jumped straight into Reaper. I normally go through Realband to Reaper but because I wanted to get a handle on how best to help Mac people if needed, and they don't have Realband, I thought I'd develop a productive approach using only BIAB and a DAW. With this in mind, my present plan of attack is as follows...
1. I write my song in BIAB.
2. I settle on those instruments that will provide the harmonic foundation and texture of my arrangement. Such instruments are usually, rhythm guitars, drums, piano and bass.
3. In BIAB, I set the mix to 'centre, flat and dry' and generate two tracks of each of those instruments. To do this, I always load the same Realtrack onto a pair of BIAB tracks and then generate. Let's call these two Realtracks that have the same number RT-A and RT-B. I save each Realtrack individually as a WAV file.
My reason for doing the above is because I usually need to copy and paste some sections of Realtrack to compile a single RT that flows how I like it to. Having two tracks means that I have enough audio to work with when compiling the best overall track.
It's not something often discussed these days but when the same Realtrack is generated on multiple tracks in BIAB, the track generations do not parallel one another. That is, each section of RT-A will be different from comparable sections in the generation of RT-B. This is very useful because it means that when I'm compiling, the comparable section in the other track will be the same chord but played differently. It makes it easier to mix and match.
4. Once I've done the above, I find soloist and background RTs to sweeten the arrangement. With these, I usually generate five instances of the RT by loading the same RT onto five BIAB tracks.
In Reaper, I once again compile a single track from the multiple generations and obtain what I think is the best possible soloist or background track.
5. When I am happy with my final product, I often delete the Reaper tracks that I no longer need.
Yes, thank you. Fascinating and clever. I take it you also decide when you've finished with BIAB and then remain in Reaper? I was hoping we would be moving to something a little more interactive by now, but perhaps with BIAB 2020? Do you use the multiriff feature?
Last edited by lambada; 07/08/1903:43 AM.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
It's not something often discussed these days but when the same Realtrack is generated on multiple tracks in BIAB, the track generations do not parallel one another. That is, each section of RT-A will be different from comparable sections in the generation of RT-B. This is very useful because it means that when I'm compiling, the comparable section in the other track will be the same chord but played differently. It makes it easier to mix and match.
This is a cool feature but I have had instances where BIAB generated the exact same bar or section on both RealTracks. This is especially noticeable when you are panning one of the tracks left and one right. When you get to the problem area the tracks add together and you lose stereo separation.
Easy way to fix this in the DAW is to move the problem area on one track 10ms back and the other 10ms forward. Or you can regenerate in BIAB.
Yes, thank you. Fascinating and clever. I take it you also decide when you've finished with BIAB and then remain in Reaper?
That's mostly true. Depending on the song, though, I sometimes revisit BIAB and generate more material. This is especially true of solos and endings.
An approach that I always use is that when I'm creating my song in BIAB, I always regenerate the song each time I play it. Then if any riff, fill-in or ending happens that I particularly like, I always save the WAV with the bar reference in the name.
Because I generate my song every time I play it, I end up generating at least a couple of hundred times and this exposes me to a huge number of audio possibilities. I like to take advantage of that.
For example, I might have a turn-around over bars 33-36 and in a particular generation I get an excellent guitar riff happening. In this instance, I'd temporarily set the tone, reverb and panning to zero and then save the file with a name something like: Guitar (insert RT number) turnaround bars 33-36_excellent.wav (such naming helps me identify it when I load it into Reaper).
Once I've save the audio file, I then reload the BIAB file (without saving the current file) so that all settings are returned to what they were.
Originally Posted By: lambada
I was hoping we would be moving to something a little more interactive by now, but perhaps with BIAB 2020? Do you use the multiriff feature?
Yes, I'm a big fan of multiriff and that's one of the reasons I use Realband. I also like Realband for using TC Helicon on vocals.
The reason I didn't mention multiriff before is because, as already mentioned, I'm trying to develop an approach that only BIAB + DAW.
It's not something often discussed these days but when the same Realtrack is generated on multiple tracks in BIAB, the track generations do not parallel one another. That is, each section of RT-A will be different from comparable sections in the generation of RT-B. This is very useful because it means that when I'm compiling, the comparable section in the other track will be the same chord but played differently. It makes it easier to mix and match.
This is a cool feature but I have had instances where BIAB generated the exact same bar or section on both RealTracks. This is especially noticeable when you are panning one of the tracks left and one right. When you get to the problem area the tracks add together and you lose stereo separation.
Easy way to fix this in the DAW is to move the problem area on one track 10ms back and the other 10ms forward. Or you can regenerate in BIAB.
Hi John,
Yes, I use 10 ms too when needed!
I think that some of the older RT files had less variations and sometimes it's not possible to get different generations. I've noticed that this often applies to endings. Mostly, though, generating two or more tracks simultaneously seems to streamline things for me.
FWIW, in RB (when heading to Reaper) you can simply grab the track number in RB and drag the tracks to Reaper one after the other .. where they retain the RB name info and just line right up (if the tempos match between RB and Reaper). Super easy, with no 'drop station' or exporting needed.
As a quick way to arrange the windows on my screen to do this I click on RB then hold the Windows key down and hit the right arrow key (which makes RB take the right half of the screen), then click on Reaper and do the same (but with the left arrow) so they share a screen nicely. Then drag stuff over. In some sessions I work with both windows open like this so I can quickly generate more in RB and drag to Reaper .. Right-click the pic below and 'View Image' for more detail. Reaper adds 'Untitled' at the beginning of the track name here, but otherwise the RT data in the name remains intact, which is extra helpful!
Last edited by rharv; 07/12/1902:41 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
If you want to integrate to Reaper look at ReaTrak. The thing with the Biab Plugin you can leave the tracks in that (local folders) until all is good. You can have a Biab Plugin on each Reaper track generating multiriffs for as many instruments as you like midi or real. You can send midi to any track and virtual instrument, send Direct Input RealTracks to the host through Guitar Rig or Amplitube by adding the Guitar FX VST after the Biab Plugin. You can redo any section of track with the MultiRiffs and just slip it in. You can have a Plugin on one track with a lot of different drums in to see what one fits best. These can be all played back in sync with any tracks if already in Reaper. You simply select the track in each Plugin you want played back in sync together. When you have got it how you like just drag those tracks from the Plugins into Reaper. ReaTrak will also generate RealDrums directly in Reaper giving you more control, allowing editing of any section and giving individual volume control of the sections, choose the shots n holds you want, adjust pushes.
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