PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic In God We Still Trust

Here is a song by Diamond Rio, that is being banned by a lot of radio stations. To think we are about to celebrate Thanksgiving. Which is a holiday in tribute to the fact that the pilgrims made it safely here so that they could worship the God of the Bible. Read what Christopher Columbus said about the reason he took the voyage. How it was the Holy Scriptures that kept him going when the science of the day said the trip was impossible. Now there are those that want to ban God references from money, from courthouses they do not want prayer. Yet the same folks gunning for God, want to worship in there own way. Pakistan has banned the use of Jesus Christ in all letters and e-mails and text, it is listed as an obscene word in their country now.

In God We Still Trust

This post does not belong on 'our' forum.

The tenor, the information, and the objective all are suspect.

I have asked before, that those who wish to evangelize do so elsewhere.

I could put this user on ignore, but that would imply that I am ok with NOT putting up a dissenting view.

1. The Pilgrims are not what you think. And harvest festivals were held for millennia, it's not something invented by the 'yanks' from the 13 colonies.

2. The trip to North America was done by Vikings and many other groups long before anyone actually landed on the shores of the current USA.

3. Poor Chris, despite what you want to think, did never set foot on the continental USA.

4. At a significant point in the history of the present USA, one of the major reasons for 'Independence' and all that was that the British had treaties with the aboriginal peoples giving them control over 4/5 of the North American geography. This did not sit well with 'american' colonial aspirants, who wanted them all dead. The Brits, after the 'revolution', realizing the idea was to grab all the land, decided to defend Canada, where, according to you, were oppressed terribly. Too bad that was not true.

History, has multiple sides.

Religion does not belong here, or on any public forum. Find a forum of your own, where you all like to figure your interpretation of whatever you think is right, and be happy in your own little spot.

Don't mess with me, don't convert me, don't bury messages or make them an in your face as you think they should be. Be quiet. Study the arts and sciences. Learn.

IF you can keep your head when all about us,
Are discarding theirs and blaming others,
When you can ponder all mankind,
And make allowance for them,
If you can listen, closing your mouth and considering,
But allow all logical arguments to colour your position.
If when the facts do not support you; you change,
When being despised remain a lover,
Yet don't look fancy, nor speak as a sage:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your driving force
If you can think, - and understand
If you can meet reality and your inevitable demise
But don't panic, and be a stalwart
If you can think that wisdom changes,
And at times appears broken,
Then that is the lot of man,
As we lay broken on a field of ideas,
Our tools dulled by the effort to bring them
Before the wise and the foolish.


If you can gird yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
When lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And greet each with a happy heart,
Knowing you care giving,
Happiness, love, an courage.

Then you know that your qualities are exemplary,
Well regarded and lauded by many,
And held in high esteem by men and God,
And silently, held high by many.

**************************************

I made up the above.

In hopes that there is some 'moderation.'

I did not complain at length to the admins but I sorely wanted to do just that, complain.

It sure is real easy to puff up your existence and think that the billions don't get it but you do. Right.

I am, in my own way, very religious. My Gods are various and of no interest you you. Nor are yours to me. Please cease and desist. I am, as a person of my own conviction, offended that the potentially insidious intentions are creating discord.

I must say that I have said the same to my blood brothers, both 'evangelical' Baptists.

Like in the song Signs from the 60's. Do this don't do that. Sorry, we are only about a few hundred years from scalping each other for our beliefs. Don't get too set in your ways and decide I'm a heathen based on my choice of haircuts.

Well put John.

100% in agreement with John. I have my own beliefs & do not need to be preached to either.

Totally in agreement with John......regardless of anyone's beliefs....this is a misuse of the forum. And the poster has been guilty of this before. PLEASE.....the are great forums....stick to the rules! Joe G.

This is why I do my best not to get into political or religious discussions on the PG forums. I'm fairly sure that my views on both differ a lot from many folks here. But that has nothing to do with how we can enjoy each other's music, and help each other with the software, and be online friends together.

I will say this on the attempts to remove "In God We Trust" from the money, from courthouses, schools, etc. -- The United States of America is indeed mostly populated by members of one flavor or another of the Christian faith. However, it is not a religious state. By that, I simply mean that the Constitution -- the backbone of our legal system -- very specifically exempts favoring, or discriminating against, any particular religion. That would be the First Amendment, in case you're wondering.

We are not a theocracy. We are a republic, a representative democracy (or we would be if our current representatives actually cared about their constituents, which sure doesn't seem to be the case from my p.o.v.)

And, bluntly, the entire "war on Christmas/Christians" thing is blown up by Fox News, and supported by other news outlets who want viewers and aren't afraid to use sensationalistic button-pushing stories to get 'em.

• We're Day Five into our first official Pre-Black Friday Christmas retail feeding frenzy. Christmas decorations have been available in most major chains since at least the last week of October, and in some places much earlier.
• We're about to have a month of holiday specials on TV, nearly all of them to do with Christmas.
• Everything shuts down for the Christmas holiday itself except churches and Chinese restaurants, and as far as I can tell the only reason the latter don't shut down is they know some people will want to eat carry-out, even on Christmas day.
• Every city in the country has, or will have, Christmas decorations. Even the "secular" variety, e.g., Santa and Reindeer and candy canes and elves and wrapped presents. How many of those cities put up similar decorations for Ramadan, Passover, or Kwaanzaa? Heck, more decorations are put up for Talk Like A Pirate Day than for those three.
• Bill O'Reilly has already started his annual War On Christmas riff, deriding any place that refers to the end-of-year holidays as, y'know, holidays rather than Christmas -- except, of course, his own online store. (Haven't confirmed it for this year, but every year for the past several he's had "Happy Holidays" ornaments, in direct violation of his own screed.)
• I drive all over the Eastern half of the country to gigs. Trying to find a classical music station -- or even a decent rock oldies station -- is a heck of a lot harder than finding either country stations or religious stations, and sometimes I find more of the latter. AM Radio? All religious or right-wing political, all the time.
• Final, small, tiny little point -- NOBODY IS TRYING TO GET RID OF CHRISTMAS. It's all in the minds of people who are being jacked around by people who want to keep them scared and malleable.

Whew. Sorry to go on for so long, but I've been kinda holding it in for a few years now. If you haven't guessed, I'll come right out and say it: Politically, I'm a progressive/liberal; I'm also an atheist, and came to that decision a long time ago for reasons which have stood the test of time and reexamination for me. Because my mom sings in her church a few times a week and her church community has done wonders for her, I do my best not to be militant about religious matters these days, unless (as is unfortunately often the case) someone is trying to jam through some legislation that would affect me or my friends because of what that someone declares their God demands.

That said, I was raised Christian. (My lame joke is that, since I was raised first Lutheran, then Methodist, I worship ways to kill Superman.) I love celebrating Christmas with friends, I love Christmas music and sing a lot of carols, I always reread Dickens' A Christmas Carol from a big annotated hardcover edition I got twenty years ago.

And I do my best to clam up about this stuff in here because I don't want to offend anybody. You are my friends, and I'd like to keep it that way. If you all want to talk about it, fine. Just... I very well might not join in.

And now, back to the clamming up part.

Hugs and Happy Holidays to you all.

Rant off.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power,would be justified in silencing mankind." - John Stuart Mill



"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

YIKES!!
Come on y'all, LIGHTEN UP!!!

The reactions to the posted song seem surprisingly over the top considering the usual levels of tolerance displayed here.

You all know of respected members, who have contributed in the past, who continually express their underlying beliefs, or faith if you will, in their posts and responses.

Would Johnny Cash and Elvis have been treated the same if they had posted one of their Gospel songs.

For the record I try to respect the beliefs of all as long as they don't advocate intolerance (or worse) towards the beliefs of others or use religion as a tool of exploitation.

A song I wrote, "Prophet For Profit" at my website: http://www.carlkocich.com/Music.html
pretty much says it all.

Politics and religion are slippery slopes which can easily bring out the dark sides of those who think they are walking (or singing) in the light.

Hopefully as lovers of music we can rise above this and focus on trying to bring some joy into the world with our efforts, humble though they may be.

Think I'll take a page from Sheryl Crow and go soak up some son, OOPS I meant SUN:)

Have a Happy and Respectful Thanksgiving.
Carkins

Sounds like a plan, gents. For what it's worth, my primary "religious" offering is a two-parter, here and here.

Don't get off the topic. I have, on more than one occasion, clicked a link by the OP, only to find out it was a hidden agenda.

Religion, it has been stated, is like one's penis. I'm glad you have one. I'm glad you are proud of it. Please don't wave it around. It does not need to be shoved at anyone.

I'm a tolerant person. I do believe in God. We celebrate Christmas. I also celebrate Beltane. I want a music forum.

I know there are lots of folks using Band in a Box in their church. I have made versions of hymns for my Mom and Dad.

I was alarmed at how the OP seemed so over the top. And of course we battle the age old dilemma of sleeping the the elephant as we call it here. I have heard more gospel music HERE than anywhere else in the last 30 years. And I normally have said nothing. And I have requested that a polite note be put in with some song that has a hidden intention.

Just remember some people believe that God is going to kill you for not being one of them.
And a few others think they should just help God out and end you miserable life now.

The difference between the two is on a few days on the scale of time. Yet for now, you don't agree with the latter of the above. Ponder that for an hour.

I wasn't trying to get off the topic, John. PGF's topic seemed to be that the airplay, or lack thereof, of a Diamond Rio song was another symptom in a war against Christmas supposedly being waged by unnamed secularists. I'm one of those unnamed secularists, and I celebrate Christmas. And, as mentioned, I've clammed up for several years now here, and it just suddenly seemed like the right time to get stuff out and off my chest, once and for all.

I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone, or take their religion to task, and I apologize if I did offend. I read once that, when it comes down to it, every variety of faith has one member, because no one else can be exactly the same in their head as you are in yours. I think that makes a lot of sense.

I used to be one of the complainers about posting non musical stuff however I changed my position some time ago.Peter is OK with it. Why should I try to change what he's OK with.
I sort of get what John C. is talking about. Religion & belief in God, Jesus etc. are really two totally different things. Since my wife's passing I've had lots of time to think about these things. I do believe in God, Jesus, Heaven, after life etc. What I do have an issue with is the strong dogmatic teachings of religions. I went to Catholic school.If you believe in the Bible the Catholic religion was started by Jesus 2011 + or - years ago.We were told by the nuns that only Catholics go to Heaven.The other Christian religions say the same about their Religion. If you don't accept Jesus as your savior you're not going to Heaven. It's straight to hell.This tells me that every Jew, Muslim, Buddhist,all non Catholics or believers in Jesus born after year 1 are in Hell and that everyone born before that year one are also in hell.Come on do you really believe that.
I remember a little parable that was taught to me in school that I always think about. I can't remember it word for word but I hope you get the jist.

A very wise and learned man was walking the beach contemplating the mystery of the Trinity. He was very impressed with his intellect to figure these things out. He came upon a small boy who was using a small container to gather water and place it in a hole he had dug in the beach. The wise man said " what are you doing little boy"? He replied " I'm going to put the whole ocean into this hole". That's crazy the man replied you can't do that. The boy replied " I will place the whole ocean in this hole before you ever understand the mystery of the blessed trinity"

My point: No one KNOWS the answer. You just need to have faith or not that you will continue on after this life.

Why the big discussion? SPAM!!

Nice one, silvertones. As I wrote in my song, I just try to mind my business, clean things up, and get along. There's too much living to be done, too much good to be done, to do otherwise.

And on that note, I need to work on some music.

Snopes says this about that.

After all the discussion here I just had to listen to the song. I must admit I liked the guitarwork on the one I heard. Apart from that it was the usual patriotic drivel one expects from this type of song. About on the level of one of the alleged emails recieved by Snopes, <quote>
The Dictator Obama, no, no, its President Hitler is saying that is not fit for release because it offends so many. So America, see what you think can we say "CENSORSHIP"
<unquote>
Words fail me.

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