Yep must have been being so close to CO and breathing in the fumes from there. I know better than that, I will now remove foot from mouth - no excuse simply spaced out yesterday.

I was reporting information SEEN, not verified, or even THOUGHT about (duh!) - I could've killed (literally) people in my last job with that kind of sloppiness.

Bottom-line: The MIDI Guitar SW by Jam Origins DOES have a PERCEPTIBLY LONGER delay then the GK/GR-50 (how much is TBD - see below for GR measured numbers) - because what I hear on PC with that Jam Origins SW triggering a VSTi is LONGER than I do with GR-50 doing it's thing. In my case, that delay, while it would be off-putting if I had to live with it forever on all critical work, was NOT a deal breaker for me.

Disregarding the small but perceptible delay, with a clean audio signal, the SW does track well (but that is like the difference between precision and accuracy - they are not the same thing). The delay is noticeable - but not deal killing (for me). It is in the "neighborhood" (Topology or Real Analysis anyone?) of "less than a 'slap back' delay", which I usually set at around 90-110 ms, but more than GR-50 (see below - for me that is a worst case of ~43 ms).

============

Now my numbers:

1: 2.7 MS is best I can run and record audio reliably with no glitches as long as simple (stereo) Input and not a complex project but I usually run at 5.8 MS (i.e., 256 samples @ 44.1- I could trim that a little by going to 48Khz or 96Khz but I don't) gives me a "buffer" against issues - in a long recording (I don’t go back and auto tune, or fix stuff on a by note or phrase basis, etc. it is what it is as recorded)

2: Using a GK equipped guitar - analog path into rack Lexicon Signature 284 to mixer, out mixer to PC in right channel. Simultaneously the hexaphonic pickup into the GR-50, to one of two sound sources:

a. Trigger its internal sounds which then leave as analog to same mixer as guitar audio but all on left channel - recorded in Audacity (so synth is right - guitar is left). With this I get an average of low E-string rise of sample to triggered synth sound rise of sample of ~ 42 ms and on high E-string ~13ms (as expected - shorter time).

b. Same set-up but instead of recording GR-50 tone, I let GR-50 do its pitch-to-midi, then out to midi patch bay to XV-5080 and it was then the XV-5080 analog signal out recoded in left channel (guitar still in right as with GR-50). Now you THINK it would take LONGER (convert to MIDI then route same to a patch bay, plus the two cable delays, then to XV where a sound is finally triggered) BUT on Low E it was averaging around ~34 ms and on high E is ~25 ms.

I will chalk these enigmatic time delta's up to "quickie back of envelope" type experiment and not using identical tones (near identical rise times needed) - I should have used a pure sine wave, or at least IDENTICAL patches, on both synths - but "close enough" and gives idea of times for my non-PC, non-ASIO, non-Jam Origins SW - MIDI generation.

So CLEARLY the GK/GR-50 combination has a small, and yes it is perceptible delay (you can feel it and hear it and NOW it is consistent with the numbers Mac has above), but even at that it is, and has been, more than adequate and sufficiently so for me to call it, for all intents and purposes, "real-time" for last 25 years.

I need to run same experiment on PC with this Jam Origins MIDI Guitar SW. I was seeing 2.7ms on the SW screen and thought "well that’s the delay I'm HEARING" - my bad and I KNOW (knew) better but spaced out.

Larry


Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/02/14 07:20 PM.
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