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I disagree.
Musicians are the the world's FIRST oldest profession.
So, you're saying musicians are all whores? 
Keith
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COVER BANDS!!!COVER BANDS!!!! SELL-OUT COVER BANDS!!!!!
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If being in a cover band is a sell-out, then every symphony orchestra in the world are sell-outs 
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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eddie1261
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A sell out doesn't have to be just money either. Amen, I sold out in LIFE for a while by staying married to a woman I really didn't even like much because she was beautiful, rich, very successful in her career, had great medical benefits, was a local celebrity, and owned a nice house. I hated myself for 5 years until I finally said "no mas" and got out. I lived in poverty for a few years until I got on my feet without her rather substantial salary to spend, but I had to do it as step one of liking ME again. Now it seems I went too far, 'cuz I LOVE me now!!!!!
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I've been trying to "sell out" now for years.... I guess nobody's buying
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Guess it means what are you selling out? Assuming you mean integrity there is a very thin line between "selling out" and compromise. Back in the day our band would play three night club gigs that paid well for a bunch of drunks who didn't give a $hit about what we were doing. However, even lesser money at a big festival where folks were attentive and dug our sound was what I enjoyed. To me the club nights were "selling out." However, some other members of the band just wanted to play irrespective of the nature of the crowd and didn't seem to care -- and the money was not a big factor. As my musician stepfather (played in a string band in the 30's) used to say "they have footlights in their eyes."
In a moment of full disclosure I guess I oughta mention that all of us in the band had professional decent paying jobs for which we had a good deal of flexibility with our time. So the "selling out" was not influenced by money. We were a traditional bluegrass band which at the time offered a lot of gigs just being ambient background music for events. I hated that as bad as the clubs. It was at the festivals where you were playing for the aficionados.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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eddie1261
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If being in a cover band is a sell-out, then every symphony orchestra in the world are sell-outs Are we going back to that horribly skewed analogy? Is a symphony orchestra playing for a bar tab at Joe's Corner Bar and Slot Car Track?
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eddie1261
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All comes down to what you want out of it. If you want people to leave drunk and roaring about how messed up they got listening to you, then you can play cliche garbage all night. If you prefer that the crowd leaves saying "Wow. Those guys can play and sing!!!" then you play more complex music that shows your skills.
I prefer the latter.
Standard disclaimer is that I do not play music for a living. If I did, I probably would do whatever it takes to get gigs and make money and try to not feel bad about being what I consider a musical wh0re that does anything for a dollar. All about what you are after.
Last edited by eddie1261; 06/14/15 05:56 PM.
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A sellout is someone who claims they wouldn't do something for some type of compensation based on morals or principles and then turns around and does exactly that. A good example would be a die hard rock musician who claims he would never stoop so low as to play country music even if they paid him a million dollars, then he turns around and plays country music because they paid him a million dollars.
The analogy of hating your job but doing it just to get paid is lacking in definition. If I said I would never be a truck driver because I thought the job was beneath me then I took a job as truck driver to get paid then I would be a sell out. If I started in a job and initially liked it but then grew to hate it and find myself still working it to get paid because that's all I know how to do, that's not a sell out. That's life.
There has to be a claimed moral high ground for not doing something and then a surrender of that high ground for compensation which in effect makes you a hypocrite and a sell out.
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A sellout is someone who claims they wouldn't do something for some type of compensation based on morals or principles and then turns around and does exactly that. A good example would be a die hard rock musician who claims he would never stoop so low as to play country music even if they paid him a million dollars, then he turns around and plays country music because they paid him a million dollars.
The analogy of hating your job but doing it just to get paid is lacking in definition. If I said I would never be a truck driver because I thought the job was beneath me then I took a job as truck driver to get paid then I would be a sell out. If I started in a job and initially liked it but then grew to hate it and find myself still working it to get paid because that's all I know how to do, that's not a sell out. That's life.
There has to be a claimed moral high ground for not doing something and then a surrender of that high ground for compensation which in effect makes you a hypocrite and a sell out. Well said Jeff!
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There are enough sour grapes in this thread to make a batch of really bad wine. When someone tells me I've "sold out", I ask them where they are playing.
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So a "Sell Out" doesn't actually mean A "Sell Out Concert"? !! Wow, did I ever get that wrong When you pull the cork out of that bottle of wine, if you listen closely, you'll still be able to hear the grape pickers arguing...
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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A sellout is someone who claims they wouldn't do something for some type of compensation based on morals or principles and then turns around and does exactly that. A good example would be a die hard rock musician who claims he would never stoop so low as to play country music even if they paid him a million dollars, then he turns around and plays country music because they paid him a million dollars.
The analogy of hating your job but doing it just to get paid is lacking in definition. If I said I would never be a truck driver because I thought the job was beneath me then I took a job as truck driver to get paid then I would be a sell out. If I started in a job and initially liked it but then grew to hate it and find myself still working it to get paid because that's all I know how to do, that's not a sell out. That's life.
There has to be a claimed moral high ground for not doing something and then a surrender of that high ground for compensation which in effect makes you a hypocrite and a sell out. Wow! I finally have a way to really describe it. I was lacking a way of saying it. This sums up my view. Thanks! Overall, I have gotten show much perspective on something that I already knew how I felt about. This forum is great for subjects like this for me. Thank you everyone for your views and input!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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There has to be a claimed moral high ground for not doing something and then a surrender of that high ground for compensation which in effect makes you a hypocrite and a sell out.
I like that definition.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Once again, you nailed it Notes. I wish there were a tip jar handy, I'd drop you a fiver . . . and you would not be a sell out for picking it up either. LOL.
Later,
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That's about it to cover my understanding. I never had a job where I enjoyed everything. There were always tasks I didn't like, but one needs to have a bread and butter job. If you play metal for your enjoyment, but country pays better? Who cares? I'd even risk a bet that doing a good job at country could even improve your metal playing. These styles are not so different as they would appear for the occasional listener. But as a musician you need the bread and butter job to pay your livelihood. Maybe your proficiency playing jazz opens the opportunity to play country or rock. A sell out would be for me if that job would compromise ethical behaviour. Playing a different style of music is not compromising ethical behaviour. Setting your own boundaries of freedom by defining them too narrow is the first step. But then that is your fault if you set the boundaries too narrow. Three rules: 1. Do what you like to do. 2. Do what gives you the freedom to follow number 1 without breaking number 3. 3. Follow the ten commandments to sustain your ethics.*) *) This is not meant in the religious way. If you're non-religious, skip the two about the superior being -- or reword them for your purpose without selling them out. The third one could be something like: 3. Take your day of rest for a) body, b) brain, c) soul.
Last edited by GHinCH; 06/15/15 01:43 PM.
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A sellout is someone who claims they wouldn't do something for some type of compensation based on morals or principles and then turns around and does exactly that.
Oh... you mean like a politician...says one thing then does the exact opposite? Or Steven Tyler who's now doing country for the money?
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If being in a cover band is a sell-out, then every symphony orchestra in the world are sell-outs Are we going back to that horribly skewed analogy? Is a symphony orchestra playing for a bar tab at Joe's Corner Bar and Slot Car Track? No but that's not the point. A symphony orchestra is covering someone else's tunes - therefore a cover band - therefore as some people have stated - sell-outs. They work for a conductor who tells them what to play and how to play it, while the conductor takes his/orders from the board of directors who try to figure out what tunes bring in the largest amount of ticket sales. And that's why we get so much Mozart, Beethoven, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky and the other pop stars of the classical field. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it means we don't hear much (if any) other great composers like Suk, Sgambati, Gliere, and so on. And isn't that what most people call a sell-out? Insights and incites by Notes.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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All comes down to what you want out of it. If you want people to leave drunk and roaring about how messed up they got listening to you, then you can play cliche garbage all night. If you prefer that the crowd leaves saying "Wow. Those guys can play and sing!!!" then you play more complex music that shows your skills.
I prefer the latter.
Standard disclaimer is that I do not play music for a living. If I did, I probably would do whatever it takes to get gigs and make money and try to not feel bad about being what I consider a musical wh0re that does anything for a dollar. All about what you are after. I had both types described in your fist paragraph. I've even played on stage with thousands of cheering fans paying attention and receiving thunderous applause at the end of each song. I rarely get the roaring drunks since I mostly play yacht clubs, country clubs, private clubs, private parties and the like. More often than not I get people come up to the stage and thank me for giving them a wonderful evening. I get applause every 4-5 minutes, I get smiles from the audience, I get dancers on the dance floor. We do a weekly afternoon gig at a marina for retired folks from October until the rainy season starts. We just finished our 7th year. The audience is like extended family, we know their names, we know their favorite songs, and many of them hug and kiss us on the way in and out. We've mourned the passing of some, encouraged the healing of others, congratulated accomplishments of some, and celebrated significant events of others. And no, I don't do anything for a dollar, we do no rap music and no heavy metal. I don't do weddings unless it's an older couple doing a second or third wedding and I'm sure there will not be a Bridezilla running the show. If there is a gig that I think will not be enjoyable, I simply quote them a high price. That way I don't have to say no. And if they go for the price, it means they really want us, and it also means I'm getting good money for the less than optimal gig. There are cover songs that other musicians don't want to play. Sure, we've done them a zillion times and there is nothing left to explore. I have only one or two of those. We only do them when requested and a funny thing happens. As soon as I put the sax in my mouth, the guitar in my hands, or the mic in my face, I forget all about not wanting to do the song and have a great time playing it. The music starts and I go into that place where there is no space or time. But if you want to consider me a wh0re, it's your prerogative. Personally, I'm having a great life doing music and nothing but music. I've played in dives, supper clubs, strip clubs, 5 star hotels, private homes, cruise ships, and just about everywhere else a musician can play. I've even played with super-stars and have been treated as an equal by them. I've had two real jobs in my life (played as a weekend warrior during those gigs). I was testing out what the normal person does. And as far as I'm concerned, a bad day at playing music is better than a good day at any day job. As far as I'm concerned, working a day job so one can play 'art music' for little or no money is a sell-out - unless he/she would rather do the day job instead of playing 'art music'. If I'm a ho, than I'm laughing ho, ho ho. A wise man once said, "If you do for a living what you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life." And except for the 2 day jobs I tried, I've never worked a day in my life. I'm at an age that I could retire. However, as long as I can fog a mirror, and as long as people want to hear what I do, I'll be gigging. It's my second favorite thing to do (and since this is a family forum, I can't tell you what's first <grin>). So what is a sell-out? It should be something one person decides for himself/herself, and not a judgement call that one person makes on another. What a sell-out is to Eddie, might be bliss to another. If I had to take a day job to support my 'art music' habit, I'd consider myself a sell-out. We're both right and we're both wrong. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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<...>
There has to be a claimed moral high ground for not doing something and then a surrender of that high ground for compensation which in effect makes you a hypocrite and a sell out. What kind of music is immoral? I play almost anything. I don't do rap or heavy metal because for rap it really doesn't interest me and for heavy metal I don't have the guitar skills for that. I play rock, disco, big band swing, jazz, R&B, C&W, blues, mambo, merengue, samba, calypso, soca, reggae, beach music, Motown, oldies, new age, smooth jazz, hiphop, dixieland, bubble gum, Broadway, zydeco and one opera song. I find nothing immoral about any of them. We do a couple of songs that I find the lyrics offensive, so I simply change them. When we do songs like "Blurred Lines" we change a few lyrics, leave out the misogynous rap part, substitute "chick" for the B word and the words are no longer offensive to me. I don't do "Let's Get Drunk And Screw" or "Stokin'" because I don't want to offend anyone in the audience. Simple as that, but the songs are light-hearted and I don't find them immoral. People do the things described in the song without guilt. I'm married, and I was a musician on the road before that. (Lucky me). But the music itself isn't immoral. How can music be immoral? Immoral words yes. There are plenty of them in rap, but not all rap has immoral words. What about Cole Porter's love for sale? It's a song about a prostitute advertising herself. Immoral? That's a judgement call, I've never had any disrespect for the working girls. As long as they choose to do it, IMO there's nothing wrong with that. I enjoy learning different styles of music. My country chops help my jazz playing, which helps my rock playing, which helps my reggae playing, and so on. And getting my head into an unfamiliar type of music and learning to express it they way it's supposed to be expressed is fun for me, and when I nail it, I get a feeling of accomplishment. I love my job, and instead of saying, "I have to go to work today" like some people, I say, "I get to go to work today!" I arrive early, skip my breaks, play extra, have a dialog with the audience, and it ends too soon. I've been a pro since 1964 and have never missed a gig. That's not being a ho, that's simply loving what I do and doing it the best I can with all the passion that's inside of me. If that's a sell-out, I'll wear that badge happily. Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 06/16/15 03:34 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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