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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5
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OP
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5 |
Hi
Hopefully this is the right part of this forum to pose some question about the difference between user tracks and proprietary real tracks. Particular real soloists.
Firstly, Is it possible to create a decent soloist user track - Assuming the instrumentalist is a decent player!!! I haven't noticed many examples of soloist tracks on this forum.
Secondly, are there any tips as to a performance, as I assume there is a need to work out good approach tones for the next chord - whatever it may be? Real track soloists mostly seem to flow very well between chords in any chord progression, and I am wondering if this is part of the BIAB generate track algorithms - so leading on from this - does a user track work in the same way or are the groups of tones just randomly chosen to fit over a chord, regardless of the next chord?
I hope this makes sense, and look forward to discussing.
Cheers
Phil
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,980
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My two cents: User Tracks, Realtracks or Soloist Tracks - all the same. Pre-recorded multibar fragments which are combined in sequence by the software to work well over different chords. The artist being recorded is presented with a series of chords which they smoothly traverse on their instrument either with a steady rhythm or an improvisation. The software then takes all those chords and all those recordings and puts together a lookup table. Then when you present the software with a new chord sequence it can select segments of recordings which fit the bill. The more recordings the artist lays down the more options available when new chords are presented. Simple as that.  Oh, and welcome to the forum. 
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5
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OP
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Wow : many Thanks Jazzmadman for the speedy response and thanks for the welcome. I should have introduced myself ... Sorry.
You have explained very well and I look forward to experimenting. So, if for example, I recorded a guitar improvisation over my chord progression including the same chords several times, but varying the solo right across my fretboard, when I create a new progression BIAB will avoid very large jumps to enable a smooth solo from bar/measure to bar/measure?
Superb - I will start recording on my DAW tomorrow - and try to use a wide variety of chords to play solo over, and hopefully post some examples to the forum in the format required.
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5
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OP
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Sorry I meant Jazmandan!! not Jazzmadman!
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,980
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I will start recording on my DAW tomorrow - and try to use a wide variety of chords to play solo over, and hopefully post some examples to the forum in the format required. I do believe you have to use the "chord template" that is provided (somewhere...). There should be very good instructions on how to make "user tracks". Of course if any problems I believe Seeker\Solidrock are the gods of all user tracks and they will help. Or, make sure that you watch the video on how to make a UserTracks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RSYeaT3H6A&feature=youtu.be
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
The more playing the better if you look in the RealTrack folders you will see how much playing there is, over 1 hr playing not just 10 minutes, there is a lot of Keys not just a few, you have Endings, shots n holds. There is some I made in the forum here that were chorded from some RTs and there was over 1 hr of playing. I would not use the standard templates they are just simple and basic to make it easy for you, if you are serious you are better making ones based on the RTs. I think the ones I made had shots n holds also, but they don't work as there is a bug but next version should have the mono bug, shots n holds bug fixed along with some more UT Bar Settings Options. You are best recording them in Realband it's a lot easier than BB, you can fix, edit, copy, paste and drop in where you like, and record DI so users can add any FX they like. It is worth spending just a little bit of time making some different Endings it will make the UT a lot better to use, most don't bother and they end with a dead stop. At the moment UTs just generate in MONO so if you record in stereo it will just merge the stereo to mono, the same with drums also, and this will sound bad.  To remove any Bar settings just put a 0 in then click Update. Bar #This sets the Bar number for UserTracks settings. Don't include this Bar in the UserTracksIf set, the current bar (or range of bars if set in the 'range of bars' edit control) will be excluded from the UserTracks, and will never be played. Ending starts on this bar (4 bar ending)If set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will be the first bar of a four bar ending. Don't Start a new Riff on this barIf set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will not be used for the start of a new riff. Useful if the bar has a sustain from previous bar, and no new attack of a note. Don't End a Riff at the start of this barIf set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will not be used to end a riff at the start of the bar. Useful if the previous bar doesn't have a defined ending for a riff. Key matchesIf set, the current bar (or list of bars ) will only be chosen for UserTracks if the User's song key matches the key in this song. (e.g. if this is the IV chord, it will only get chosen if it would be the IV chord in the user's song This bar is SimpleIf set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will be set as 'simple' riffs. The user can set the song to want simple riffs (in Song Settings dialog), and then these simple riffs will get chosen preferentially. Only Play this for a fillIf set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will be set as a fill, and will only play where the user's song is also fill. Only play this for a post fill (after a fill)If set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will be set to a post fill, and will only play at points in the user's song after a fill. Odd/Even must matchIf set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will be set to play in the user's song only if the odd/even status (bars after a part marker) matches the user's song. Always play this bar if it matchesIf set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will always get played, as long as it's chord and other settings are compatible. It would override any other riffs that match.
Once is enough (don't repeat this)If set, the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) would only get played once per song. Use if this is an unusual riff that you wouldn't want to hear repeated. Bar/Beat Markers (only if riff doesn't start on the bar or beat)These are set visually in the Audio Edit Window. You can set the location of a beat/bar marker (ms offset) and the riff marker type (begin and/or end). Beat 1: Adjust the marker where the riff begins if it begins on beat 1. A beat 1 riff would get chosen for a new bar, and a riff could begin up to 2 beats early if you want an anticipation. Beat 2: Adjust the marker where the riff begins if it begins on beat 2. A beat 2 riff only lasts one beat, and gets chosen when the user's song is on beat 2. Beat 3: Adjust the marker where the riff begins if it begins on beat 3. A beat 3 riff can last 2 beats, and gets chosen when the user's song is on beat 3. Beat 4: Adjust the marker where the riff begins if it begins on beat 4. A beat 4 riff only lasts one beat, and gets chosen when the user's song is on beat 4. ms: The ms offsets are set visually in the Audio Edit Window. Only set these if the riff doesn't start right on the bar line. For example, if set to -50, the riff will start 50ms before the beat. [Delete] This deletes the bar/beat marker" [Update] Updates the settings so they are saved.
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,047
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Seeker still has long way to go....
solidrock "is" as his avatar seh's, right on course for
outstanding UserTracks creation.
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
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Posts: 5 |
Hi solid rock
Thanks for that info, really useful, and the explanation of User Track development settings particularly so. Strangely I had guessed this might be the case with the standard template and am currently transcribing one of the realtrack chord progressions - Im using Cubase, as I am used to it, I see what you mean about the amount of material recorded for one realtrack!!!
The one i am transcribing ( Guitar, Electric, Rhythm JazzFunkGroovinChords Ev16 110) has some nice chords and varied rhythyms. I also notice that there are the equivalent progressions used for the soloing of Guitar, Electric, Soloist JazzFunkGroovin Ev16 110.
I also noticed that some of the solo parts are syncopated across bars which i assume is accounted for by using the settings screen you have posted.
All very clever stuff.
I'll look up your user tracks - many thanks
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
You can get BB to Output Chords to a midi file in the Options, load it into Cubase then send the chords to the Chord Track.
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5 |
That will be really useful and save me loads of time!, But can I load one of the wav files from the real track folder into BIAB so the sequence of chords originally used for that part are loaded in the same order too?
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
No, it would be great if it did ! you can use the ACW then just go through and correct them.
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
Once you have all the chords you can add any extra chords and endings, then go to the Options > Output Chords and set the Tick before chord to 0, then save as midi, then drag midi into Cubase and send BB Chord Output track to the chord track.
You can generate up whatever style tempo you need and drag the drums, bass and whatever else you need into Cubase and then record to that Key then go back to BB and change to the next key up and so on.
You can also save the BB UT Template to video then import to Cubase.
Last edited by solidrock; 07/26/15 04:57 PM.
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Joined: Aug 2011
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