PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic This seems to be a hot debate

To aid the confused, click tracks into in-ear monitors are available with prompts.

Intro...2...3...4

Verse...2...3...4

Chorus...2...3...4

For the one's who may be lyrically impaired:

Happy Birthday...2...3...4

Hey Jude...2...3...4

Living on sponge cakes...2...3...4

Just kidding !!!

I know of 2 bands locally where the singer has a scrolling teleprompter in front of him and nobody is any the wiser because from the from the front it looks like a monitor/speaker. Same angled, upward facing design. I'd rather see a singer use a prompter than forget the words and freeze.

Years ago I was in a band that did one particular song that had a lot of "off the beat" stuff and it was very hard to stay in time. We needed to do something about that or drop the song. I had a drum machine that had an output that sent 5v out, and we rigged up some lights (car backup bulbs I think is what we used) and strung them across the stage to where the bulbs (2 per guy) were right under the wedges. When we did that song, I started the drum machine dialed into the right speed. The drummer wore headphones to hear the click track, the rest of us had lights to pace us, and we played that song in time after that. I never once considered it cheating. I considered it using all the tools we had available to us to create the best product we could.

I don't like when bands use tracks, and that could be considered them just using all the tools they have on hand, but I consider it denying musicians a spot in a band in order to make $25 more bucks per guy. I would rather play with 6 pieces and make less money (per gig - just play more!) than use a backing track for keyboards, horns and BGV. If you want horns, hire horn players. They are sitting at home doing nothing. Give them a job. That is the ONLY thing I have against tracks.

My take on that is that a guy with backing tracks isn't competing for the same gigs as the full band. They're really two completely different entertainment options.

The solo performer with tracks will end up in the corner of a restaurant or rest home where the volume can't be much more than that of a stereo... same gigs that might hire a solo guitar player with a mic. Small and intimate settings.

Likewise, the local clubs that host bands would never consider hiring a geek with a pc that streams backing tracks. Culture clash. Salt water fish vs fresh water fish.. they look alike but they prosper in different environments.

Rather than stealing opportunities from live performers, I see it is opening a whole new set of opportunities for live music that simply wouldn't be a good fit for a full band.

Notes and 90db aren't solo performers, so they can compete on the same turf as a band to some extent... but I bet they have trouble getting certain gigs that are the domain of full bands. They'd have to weigh in on that, as I'm just speculating

based on what I've seen among my group of musicians friends, I think this is a LOT more common than the phenomenon of taking the idea to a fruitful conclusion. Every musician dreams of performing... but it seems that most of them don't. At least, that's what I've seen.

“...I don't like when bands use tracks, and that could be considered the, just using all the tools they have on hand, but I consider it denying musicians a spot in a band in order to make $25 more bucks per guy. I would rather play with 6 pieces and make less money (per gig - just play more!) than use a backing track for keyboards, horns and BGV. ...”


Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Bands around these parts make $300 for a 4 hour slot on a weekend. That's $50 per man in a 6-piece – gross. The net?

Subtract gas, roadies(if they're willing to work for next to nothing), Load in/set up/sound check, Play for 4 hours, tear down, load out, drive home. The net is a lot less than $50.

We played Tuesday night at a pub. Here's the general breakdown:

Drive to venue (Toyota 4-Runner pulling a cargo trailer) – 1 hour
Arrive at venue at 12 PM.
Load in/set up/ sound check – 2 hours
Play from 2-6 PM – 4 hours
Tear down/load out – 1 hour
Drive home – 1 hour


That's 9 hours of work for $150. That equals $8.33 an hour each. Subtract gas, insurance, wear and tear, and the net is less than minimum wage. Do you know any musos that will work for that? I don't. Especially horn players.



Regards,

Bob

These are 4 piece bands playing with tracks. Usually guitar, bass, drums and a front singer and the music is half prerecorded. They play 200 seat rooms, not 40 seat wineries. They ARE taking gigs from full bands because they consider themselves to be a full band. This whole "The audience is stupid and they'll never know" mentality really makes me angry. When One guy is on stage singing and you hear 3 voices, you'd have to be some special kind of stupid to not know there are backing tracks playing.

Solo guys, I get it. I am one of them. (I don't really play but if I did it would be with tracks because I am so weak I can't just play a solo guitar and sing. My songs don't work that way.)

This is really all about money. Bands play cheap, almost free, JUST to be playing, and as I have said so many times and caught heat for it, music does not define me. It does not make me a better person. It does not add or detract from my value as a human being. It's just one thing of the MANY things I know how to do. I just had a rather terse exchange with someone about those people on Facebook who have so little in their lives that those 3 copy band gigs per month define who they are and they post pictures of their drums as a profile pick JUST so people hear them say "Look!! I am in the club! I play drums!! See???"

It's just a part time job.... I don't post a picture of the car I use to deliver auto parts 10 hours a week....

yeah... I do see your point. But in all fairness, there is a perceived difference in cool factor, even though they're both part time jobs.

And although it's true that most people don't identify themselves by their jobs, they DO tend to identify themselves by their hobbies. Music is unique in the fact that it can be both.

I have to concede this... I've never seen that fish, but I believe you when you say it exists.

I'd also have to say that if I could find a 4 piece band that was willing to play along with my tracks, I'd probably jump on that bandwagon before they changed their minds. And here's why:

in making my own tracks, I find that MOST songs have about 8 tracks... some have wayyyy more parts.. upwards to 24. I would not want a phone that dropped out all but 4 out of every 24 words... and likewise, I don't like to hear a song that I know has 24 parts being condensed down to 3 parts and a vocalist.

I also don't like the alternative of hearing bands settle for only songs that have 3 parts because that's what they can duplicate. I get bored quickly.

Trax keep the sound interesting, and more people on stage would keep the visuals interesting. It may just be my hobby, but I'd LOVE to watch a 4 piece band that uses trax, just to see how well they pull it off!

But that's just me.. I realize that personal taste runs in a lot of different directions, and ALL of them are valid.

Part of the reason I don't go see more music, even now in my retired years when I don't have to get to bed or wake up based on a job, is that 90% of the bands here are trio with front singer. Nobody else even sings. Or tries to. Don't even have mics. So already, that limits the band to either doing songs that have no harmony or leaving harmony out where it should be.

Then we get to the instrumentation. When the guitar player solos, that leaves bass and drums. That makes it REALLY empty. (Rush fans please don't bother pointing out that Rush is a trio. These bands are far from Rush, They are not even Hurry, much less Rush...) So rather than sound empty, some use backing keyboard tracks. Well, I am home and available....

As far as the bottom line dollar argument, we now are into the art vs craft discussion. I would rather play in an 8 piece band with horns doing Tower of Power, AWB and EW&F music and make $40 than a trio playing marginally listenable music to make $100. I make money. Money doesn't make me. By the same token, I make music. Music doesn't make me.

In my lifetime, I have been an absolute WIZARD in the IT field. My IQ is 162. I am a good enough cook to cook at a small restaurant. When I had tools I made some really nice furniture. I wrote a column for a newspaper for 2 years until the paper sold and I was out of the picture. If something breaks, I can fix it. If I listed all of that on a resume or a dating profile of anything public, none of that would draw as much as a mention. But add "I play 3 instruments, write, sing, and produce music", NOW I get attention. I find that insulting. THAT is what I mean by music defining people. My self esteem doesn't need the phony inflation JUST because of something I have done since before age 5.

I would love JUST ONCE to have someone say "Have you ever had his gumbolaya? It's amazing!" Or "That column he wrote about going to Chicago and eating all those hot dogs at the Cubs game was REALLY well written!" I am 33,500 words into a book about my boring life in the midwest that nobody would ever care to read. But mention music and it's "Oh wow!!! You're in a BAAAAAAAAAAAAND????"

And I don't even know where this discussion took this turn and I am sorry to hijack the thread with my ranting.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if you promise to say the kind of interesting stuff you usually do, you can hijack my threads anytime!

One last hijacking type post. I run into a lot of people who don't understand the way I look at music. (And this probably doesn't even really belong here.)

While music CAN be a way to make a living, and many of my friends do that, it is more than that to me. Music is a way to speak to strangers in a language that everybody understands. It's a way to pull everybody into one state of mind. Well crafted songs tend to have a soporific effect on people. The band I was going to put together to play blues (I decided it was not right for me and pulled out of it) was going to feature a lot of music by Gary Moore. I was trying to explain to the singer that he needed to not just sing the lyrics, but actually listen to them and understand the story he was trying to tell. The opening lines of "Still Got The Blues" are "Used to be so easy to give my heart away. But I found out the hard way there's a price you have to pay."

It's important to FEEL those lyrics. Anybody who has ever experienced the pain of a lost love (and isn't that just about everybody?) can relate to being emotionally invested in someone and having it taken away from you. That "price" is a huge sense of deflation. And if you can't sing that song in a way that you make the crowd feel that pain we have all known, then don't bother.

Listen to Bonnie Raitt sing I Can't Make You Love Me sometime. "Turn out the light. Turn down the bed. Turn off these voices inside my head...." Is that powerful writing? And it was written by Mike Reid, a former NFL lineman!! It really CAN come from anywhere!!

Music is not supposed to be just aural. It is also supposed to be intellectual and visceral. Music should give you something to listen to, something to think about, and something to feel. When you can reach down into someone's heart and soul and pull those things out of them, that's when you are a success. If you are not going for THOSE emotions, that's fine. Go the other way and play all "feel good" music. Whatever path you choose, make sure you do what you do with such skill and such conviction that the crowd feels what you feel. THAT is what's at the heart of this whole thing called music. And when people DO choose to put out a substandard product (like the bands I alluded to that have one singer and no rhythm section to speak of and are thus reduced to playing very lame music) just so they can make a little money, I do not respect them at all musically. Personally, sure. Musically, no.

The 2 times I heard the best music ever were not even music in the conventional sense. One was in the early 80s when I was in Arizona. I road out into the desert on a dirt bike about 3am, well past where the city lights had any effect. I sat out there and all I could hear was the oil dripping as the engine cooled, the little bit of breeze blowing the sand, and the occasional lizard running around. That was music I never heard before being a city kid. The other time was when my buddy and I went out night fishing on his boat. We were about 7 miles off shore out into Lake Erie, and as we reclined in the deck chairs, after a while the rhythm of the waves slapping the side of the boat became absolutely hypnotic. Again, a music I had never really heard before.

THAT is what I try to reach in people when I write.

And now I won't hijack anymore.