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Thanks Floyd and Rharv for your responses. Floyd, I am a simple man and you "make it look easy" so off to Sweetwater I go.....
Rharv, I believe I've heard you mention the meter plug in before. I've often wondered how relative the metering is between the different sound cards, pc sytems and such. So many variables, so I've never relied on the accuracy of the meters exclusively.
In amateur radio, a very strong signal reading on the meter was "full scale". This simply meant the meter was 100% peaked. I 'calibrated' the meters in my scanner modification projects that had a meter by keying a cordless phone about 10' feet away. So all of my reception signals referenced from that "full scale" reading.
In times past, the analog signal chain was gained staged (calibration of sorts) by 1k and 10k tones so if were critical, that could be an option if necessary. I tend to use meters as a rough guide to avoid obvious clipping.
I downloaded what may be a similar plug in to what you speak of a couple of years ago but I've never installed or used it.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Janice & Bud: I actually have the Waves LinMB plugin. But I tend to use the L3 which has a multiband compressor and limiter built into one. Maybe I should try the LinMB and just use the L2 limiter. I loaded up the LinMB, but maybe I do need some instructions on it!
Howdy, Here's my Waves LinMB mastering protocol or least the best one I could "appropriate" from the web gurus. 1. Always perform a Full Reset before proceeding with a new song 2. Select the Adaptive Electro Mastering Preset 3. Change Makeup to Auto (right hand column) 4. Play the song through and click Trim Button when you see peaks 5. Set each band’s Threshold by entering values at the bottom of each column (the values were determined by your run through) 6. Bring the Master Threshold down to where the bouncing line is sitting mostly in the middle of the blue band 7. Set each band's releases to mostly flatten line, i.e., slow down the “dancing.” As mentioned by order of processing is Ozone 6 EQ > Waves LinMB > Ozone 6 Limiter I'm not a fan, as least for me, of post mix reverb, stereo exciters or post production EQ hence I never use those modules with Ozone 6. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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I've often wondered how relative the metering is between the different sound cards, pc sytems and such. So many variables, so I've never relied on the accuracy of the meters exclusively. The math going on inside the DAW has nothing to do with the sound card, system, monitors etc .. Inside the DAW itself it is all digital, so nothing really magical about it, simply math. It happens before the signal ever gets sent to the sound card. We live in a wondrous age for recording. By being able to measure the RMS, peak, average, and Peak/Average ratio we can get a pretty honest measurement of how 'loud' our mix is regardless of the system. Sure, System A may be louder/better than System B, but the goal is to make them both respond as expected. The same two songs on system A can be reliably relevant on system B if the measurements/adjustments happen before the sound ever gets produced on either system. Just my 2 bits.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Makes sense. Dating myself back to the old analog world, analog thinking and analog habits.
All is good if I can break old habits.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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I agree about reverb at this stage (generally). I try not to.
However I never rule out EQ or Exciter; they can make a huge difference. Same with stereo imaging.. though this can be a tough one to nail.
Once you implement a multiband compressor, an exciter can help keep the life in the sound.
EQ, well, I never rule that one out.. and I'm confused because your post says you avoid post-mix EQ but your described signal path includes it.
"As mentioned by order of processing is Ozone 6 EQ > Waves LinMB > Ozone 6 Limiter"
and
"I'm not a fan, as least for me, of post mix reverb, stereo exciters or post production EQ hence I never use those modules with Ozone 6."
I'm confused (happens often, so may just be me).
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Here's another interesting aspect .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwof1zf1ts4 It's all about the music, the recording is the medium (and sometimes the fluff) .. give it a couple minutes to 'stop making sense'
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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As a 'talking head' everything he said was true and made good sense then we see it contrasted to the 'performing head' working in the finished environment on stage where everything is computer generated cues, click tracks and processed vocals.
He is of the same opinion as you were just a few weeks ago on another post Rharv when you advised me not to let the technology of BAIB get in the way of my songwriting.
I spend most of my time with my hobby of BIAB not writing and producing original songs and making demos but downloading songs from facebook, YouTube of everyday people who have created their cover of a hit or singing their original using just a piano or guitar. Sometimes, even acaplla. Most of these are recorded with no metronome or click track and without the aid of the ACW, would be impossible for the most part to be used within BIAB/RB. But sometimes surprises me how much energy such live recordings have.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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But sometimes surprises me how much energy such live recordings have. This is why I like to use first takes. If I make a big blunder I will punch-in/punch-out. I do not record/sing my parts over 3-to-n times and cut and paste the good parts together. My philosophy is if you can't play/sing the song in one perfect or almost perfect take then you need to practice the song more. This is just me and YMMV. PS-no offense intended for those who use other recording techniques. This is just my opinion and you may or may not agree. Peace
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
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David Cuny: Thanks for the in-depth look at my tunes and the nice write up on the Jimmy's tune. I just went through the first 7 or so songs look at places to working in the compression side.
Not much change on Bup Bup. I think I improved a Little Bit of Loving (the compression was too noticeable). ... so I kept going and made little tweaks here and there thereby only making small changes (which I hope are better) ... and then I destroyed Thunderbird (Thunderbord ?) Motel (ha, ha).
There was too much compression, but when I tried to ease off, I lost some feeling and got to many "esss" on Janet's part. The de-esser didn't seem to help too much and the DR rating went from 9 to 7! So I just restored that one from backup!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to all who came along and commented, it has been quite helpful.
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Imo, That "sheen" of older records besides being mixed by great engineers
also comes from the analog outboard equipment that was used in the recording studio.
I don't think even today most pro tracks are done strictly all ITB.
And I think that emulations of outboard analog equipment are just that.
Not saying some of them don't sound great, or that nobody's ever gotten a great mix solely ITB.
I just think that's why some of this old outboard stuff is hot again and selling for big bucks.
I also think the choice and use of reverb has much to do with that sheen.
Not that I've personally achieved that sheen on my own
but from what I've heard and seen - just saying...
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Sr. I agree about reverb at this stage (generally). I try not to.
However I never rule out EQ or Exciter; they can make a huge difference. Same with stereo imaging.. though this can be a tough one to nail.
Once you implement a multiband compressor, an exciter can help keep the life in the sound.
EQ, well, I never rule that one out.. and I'm confused because your post says you avoid post-mix EQ but your described signal path includes it.
"As mentioned by order of processing is Ozone 6 EQ > Waves LinMB > Ozone 6 Limiter"
and
"I'm not a fan, as least for me, of post mix reverb, stereo exciters or post production EQ hence I never use those modules with Ozone 6."
I'm confused (happens often, so may just be me). Ozone has two EQ modules. One is the first in the chain and the other is the last module before the limiter. I meant that I use EQ only as the first effect in the chain and I always do that but never as the last. . Sorry I wasn't clear. But with me there's ample precedent for that! Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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But sometimes surprises me how much energy such live recordings have. This is why I like to use first takes. If I make a big blunder I will punch-in/punch-out. I do not record/sing my parts over 3-to-n times and cut and paste the good parts together. My philosophy is if you can't play/sing the song in one perfect or almost perfect take then you need to practice the song more. This is just me and YMMV. PS-no offense intended for those who use other recording techniques. This is just my opinion and you may or may not agree. Peace Ditto. We do one or two vocal takes at the most. When Janice says she's ready to record she is, well, ready  We learned years ago that after that a little something is lost with each take. It may be technically correct but some of the excitement and edge is gone. And the live feel that we strive for is diminished. FWIW, Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Yeah, I'll take live feel every time.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Sorry for hijacking your thread for a moment Kevin but this needs to be said based on some other comments that might be taken the wrong way. The voice is like a stove. It cooks best once it's warmed up otherwise your vocal will come out half baked. So however you choose to warm it up - keep in mind ALL pro singers warm up before they do a recording take (or even a live show.) Because what happens when a singer doesn't warm up by whatever method they choose is at best the first part of the song sounds considerably worse than the last as the voice starts to get loose. Half baked. And that's the best case scenario. Usually it doesn't go that well. So for people reading this, if you don't warm up your voice before singing you're risking straining your voice just as if you were going to run a race without stretching first. You may hobble to the finish but odds are you're going to cramp. People reading this who don't sing often and who don't practice and who don't know how to warm up their voice may see the above posts and think they're just going to pop on the mic and find some elusive "magic" in that first take - ain't going to happen. That's why Bud said when Janice is "ready" to sing. I'm sure being an athlete in addition to singing she knows from experience (as do all singers I know) to warm her voice up first. The magic happens when the voice like the stove is preheated and ready to cook. Hijack over. 
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There was too much compression, but when I tried to ease off, I lost some feeling and got to many "esss" on Janet's part. The de-esser didn't seem to help too much and the DR rating went from 9 to 7! So I just restored that one from backup! Backups are good!  I've got a lateral 'S', so I'm particularly sensitive to silibance. I've tried various automated ways to tame it, but I always come back to the same method: zoom in, draw an volume envelope around the offending bit, and manually adjust it. Works like a charm. You don't want to overdo it (like I tend do) or you end up with a sliced-and-diced performance with all the life sucked out of it. But fixing the main trouble spots means that you can ease back on the other settings a bit, because the rest of the signal chain doesn't have to try to fix it.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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The magic happens when the voice like the stove is preheated and ready to cook. Hijack over. I will continue the hijack It is not just the voice that needs to be preheated! By first takes that means AFTER you have warmed up even if you play guitar, piano, sax, whatever! First takes means the first time that you record not the first time you sing and/or pick up your instrument! I just wanted to verify that! Thanx Sundance for bringing that point up front!
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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If you have access to the original "Will the circle be unbroken" album with country stars and the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, during some of the talk between track takes, Roy Acuff says the very same thing about getting the vocals right on the first take because the quality of the vocals decrease with additional takes.
In a YouTube video "Allan Parsons on recording audio", (it's been taken down by YouTube) during an interview with Michael McDonald, Michael states it normally takes him 3 hours before his voice is ready to record. Of course it shows, but my status quo is to think about a song, write it, create the music in BIAB, export the BB track and record, edit, mix and print the song and have it up on Soundcloud in about 3 hours. No one needs to remind me of the difference in quality of Michael McDonald's vocals and mine, just let me dream on that it's the three house making the difference. ;=)
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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After all the hemming and hawing and good discussion points made by many, I am starting to feel a bit better about my mixes. Even though I use a lot of real tracks, I think I am being held back a bit with my recording quality. I don't really strive for the best possible mic location (and plus the location will change from recording to recording), I record on a $50 mxl v63m condensor mic using a $29 art preamp in a basement room that has no treatment!
I think I might be doing as well as expected under those conditions. Now could I mix, EQ or compress better? -- absolutely. ... and I will continue to see what I can do. Over the past couple of days I have gone through 1/2 the songs looking for too much compression and went though all the tunes looking to where I could expand the dynamic range (DR) value.
They are not pro mixes by any stretch of the imagination, but they are holding up a bit better against some of my reference tunes. I don't know if I could learn and apply ozone in 10 days to feel comfortable using it so quick, so maybe I will go with what I got for this CD and on the next effort start over again. In the current songs, I need to fix a couple of vocal parts, re-do a ukulele part that is awful and fix a few other small parts hither and yon.
Thanks to everyone's comments, it has been most helpful.
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Kevin, you should download the Ozone trial and simply install and try a few presets to see if it immediately improves your mixes (I suspect it will surprise you how much better they sound!)
The trial is 10 days...software fully functional...comes with a ton of presets...no learning curve at all if you just try out the presets...so all you really have to lose is a couple of hours to download, install and check out the presets. If you like the result just keep your work and buy Ozone for the next CD!
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By the way, Jimmy Buffet's A1A and White Sport Coat And A Pink Crustacean CD's are on youtube courtesy of Universal Music Group International Lots of great songs and superb sounding mixes (to me). Of course these could be digital remasters -- which are never as good as the originals! Hey, here's Living and Dying in 3/4 Time
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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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