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...without me having to map or manage or enter many settings - just the one that changes which synth is in use (or close to it).
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Hardware or software synth? Price no object or within a price range? When you stated you don't want to "map or manage many settings" to me that means you want it to be general midi compliant or for PG Music to have a patch map available for download.
The most inexpensive solution is likely a software solution. Two choices are Coyote Forte and Roland TTS-1. Coyote is available from PG Music while TTS-1 is included with any Sonar (Cakewalk) product.
Hardware choices are keyboards that include sound modules and sound modules. Both are available used or new at prices ranging from $10 (yardsale) to $$$$$$$$$$$$$. The two most popular high end sound modules are Integra by Roland and Motif by Yamaha. PG Music sells a sound module made by Ketron. It has a good reputation for good sound at a reasonable price.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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...in my mind only one very short answer is needed here! I am surprised you would not already know the answer.  Coyote Forte Dxi
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The Roland Canvas softsynth is supposed to be a very good sounding GM/GS softsynth: http://www.roland.ca/products/sound_canvas_va/Note that I have no experience with this sound source.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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That's interesting MarioD. Soundcanvas has a pretty big reputation. It's only $125, too. Hmmm....
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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I'm a big Roland fan, and the Sound Canvas series in general. I really want to try this, but the "Reminder" section concerns me;
"No plugin bridge will enable to run 32bit SOUND Canvas VA on 64bit OS/DAW environment."
Just thought I'd mention it. Has anyone with 64 bit OS used this?
It wouldn't bother me if they meant it ran only as a 32bit app, but if it can't run in a 64 bit OS (even when using a bridge) that is quite different.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Yes I run win 7 Pro 64 I ran the demo just for grins (I have an external SC-8850, besides all the other gear and SS's I own, and the sounds of this plug-in are IDENTICAL with IDENTICAL maps so not worth it TO ME at $125 - duplicative) The 32 bit version makes no sound within BIAB and didn't spend a lot of time trouble shooting but the 64 bit version works just fine in BAIB (using JBridge obviously) I sent PG support few questions on this an their reply " Hi Larry,
I have seen plugins with very larger control panels get cut off, but the Sound Canvas VA's control panel is pretty small so wouldn't normally get cut off like this. I do see why it's happening though.
When you first select the SC VA, its control panel is pretty tiny, and only expands to show more information when you hit the Part, FX, or Options buttons. This is fairly unusual behaviour, most plugins' control panels have a fixed size. I've never seen one that shrinks and expands like this before.
The size of the window is set when the plugin is first selected, and simply doesn't refresh when the plugin is expanded. Frankly, I wouldn't have expected it to, this was an odd design decision on Roland's part.
Regarding the "no sound" issue, the trial version of the plugin is silent for me too, it doesn't seem to be responding at all to the General MIDI patch changes or notes being sent to it from BIAB.
I have a feeling that if we could see the entire interface I'd see a setting that would affect this. I'll let the development team know about the control panel getting cut off, hopefully this can be improved. Once that's resolved we'll likely be able to figure out why it's silent.
I've only tested this with the 32-bit version, but will test the 64-bit version on a different computer once things have slowed down here a bit following the sale. 
Thank you,
Kent
PG Music Inc.
Important Reminder: Please include all previous correspondence when replying to this message.
On 1/06/16 12:33 PM, Larry Kehl wrote:
1. I’ve mentioned this in a previous version(s) of BIAB (and PT and RB)
Issue: some VSTi/VST plug-ins when you open their “window” (edit , etc.) BIAB/RB/PT doesn’t allow for or open a large enough window see whole app’s working window.
A GREAT NEW example is the new Roland Sound Canvas VA plug-in (http://www.roland.com/products/sound_canvas_va/downloads/ )
You don’t need to buy it you (for trouble shooting) can download the trial version and see for yourself.
2. While you are at it the 32 bit version of this sound canvas makes NO sound in BIAB, RB or PT (no audio) but you can see the parts playing in the display window) . However, the 64 bit version DOES generate audio.
BTW this new Sound Canvas VA - both the 32 bit and 64 bit versions: work in Music Creator ( 32 and 64 bit) Sonar Platinum (32 and 64) and Mixcraft (32 and 64 - with some issues there) and Reaper 32 and 64.
"
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Weird; the Reminders section on the Roland page seems to say the opposite to me (regarding 64 bit OS and bridges).
If it sounds 'exactly' like a SC-8850 then it may be worth investigating. Thanks.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks for info Mario. Will this be the same set of sounds that I already have when using the Roland dxi on my 32 bit windows7? Thanks Musiclover
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I have a Ketron SD2
I have to say that for its size and price, it's pretty impressive as a hardware device.
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It seems to me - the next logical question or suggestion is - and I don't know who would bother but it sure would allow people (like me ; ) to judge for themselves:
Have our best sound engineers on this forum select between 3 to 5 songs per genre, and record playback from each of the Synths listed above. Create a soundclips page so we could all listen for ourselves - and THEN continue this discussion.
Ok - who's gonna do it : )
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Kontakt by Native Instruments would be my recommendation. 1. It is a software synth and it will work with any inexpensive midi controller/keyboard. 2. It is a sampling synth, which means it has sampled instruments in it's library and not just the patch based lower quality sounds you find with many synths that are lower priced. 3. It's in the $400 price range 4. It is professional quality and many pro's use it in their scoring work 5. It has the most after-market sound libraries out there and available at a very reasonable cost. 6. It works as stand alone or as a VST in a DAW You want samples created by the synth mentioned? Kontakt as well as some other NI synths were used in these productions. These were before I got BB/RT March To Tobith Rey-Al http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8968632End of the Line http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=7202047 notes on EOTL drums are programmed in Jamstix using a Battery (NI drum)kit. and bass is Kontakt. I really enjoyed working up the guitar parts for this song. Give Me A Chance http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10977017 Kontakt is used in this at 3:10 for the female choir in the background behind the little girl singing. The song is essentially done in BB/RB with Kontakt for the choir. This is just a sampling of what you can do with Kontakt. It is a very versatile synth, adding the unique touches to a BB/RB production to laying down the drums and bass parts for a more conventional style rock/country song, or into a more full orchestral kind of thing with cellos and french horns and viola sections. It's limited only by your imagination and skill set. I quite often will use a synth of one kind or another.... my 2 favorites are Kontakt and The Cakewalk Sound Center. If for example, BB/RB isn't giving me the kind of bass line I want in a song, the quickest path to the right one is to load the synth and play it myself. The Caddy song https://app.box.com/s/8zwr48mczf1isj64tnwu classic example of a bass line that is synth since I could not find a satisfactory RT that worked like I wanted.... it needed to channel Dusty Hill... as I recall, this is the CSC Ricko. Hope this helps you a bit.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/08/16 03:50 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Joe, your initial message states "...without me having to map or manage or enter many settings - just the one that changes which synth is in use (or close to it)." Thus it appears to me that you are looking for a General MIDI sound source. This would eliminate Kontakt, SampleTank and all of the other best sounding sound sources. Note the best sounding comes from the more expensive, sometimes specialized, sound sources. What genre of music are you going to play with this sound source? Some GMs have better sounding strings than others, some better horns, or ensembles, or guitars etc. The only GM that allows you to change sounds, AFAIK, are the old soundfonts(sf2). With a free sf2 player and a free sf2 editor you can pick the best patch for you and place it in the GM sound source. But these will only sound as good as some entry level sounds like those that come with BiaB/RB. Thus my advice to you and anyone else that wants to really get into MIDI is to quit using GM, learn about setting up non-GM MIDI sounds and learn about MIDI controls, i.e CCs. More work, yes. More cost, yes. But one hell of a lot better sounds. DL the free Kontakt player and listen to a few super MIDI tracks through it and you should see what I mean. http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/free-download/
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I think the Coyote and Roland SOFTware synths sound lame.
Ketron SD-2 is probably your best all-around choice for a reasonable price.
That's my opinion anyway.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Joe, your initial message states "...without me having to map or manage or enter many settings - just the one that changes which synth is in use (or close to it)." Thus it appears to me that you are looking for a General MIDI sound source. This would eliminate Kontakt, SampleTank and all of the other best sounding sound sources. Note the best sounding comes from the more expensive, sometimes specialized, sound sources. What genre of music are you going to play with this sound source? Some GMs have better sounding strings than others, some better horns, or ensembles, or guitars etc. The only GM that allows you to change sounds, AFAIK, are the old soundfonts(sf2). With a free sf2 player and a free sf2 editor you can pick the best patch for you and place it in the GM sound source. But these will only sound as good as some entry level sounds like those that come with BiaB/RB. Thus my advice to you and anyone else that wants to really get into MIDI is to quit using GM, learn about setting up non-GM MIDI sounds and learn about MIDI controls, i.e CCs. More work, yes. More cost, yes. But one hell of a lot better sounds. DL the free Kontakt player and listen to a few super MIDI tracks through it and you should see what I mean. http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/free-download/ Yep. The synths that are included with most music software like Cakewalk and others are the GM basic synths that use patches. I never wanted to spend the time to learn how to map midi and use controllers. All I wanted to do was hit a key on my controller and hear the sound of a cello, or a violin, or a piano on a concert stage. I didn't want to program or map anything. I have Kontakt as I stated. I insert it as a synth into my project. All I have to do is tell the software what channel my controller is sending on.... in my case, channel 6... (yeah I have my reasons for that) ... and it could just as easily be OMNI in which case it would be Insert, select the sample and play. Nothing is fancy or complicated about working with the better synths. The advice to "quit using the GM synths" was, in my humble opinion, spot on. You get better sound from the better synths. Setting them up is a quick and simple matter once you do it a time or two.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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The BEST? Careful what you ask for. Software: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-NAT-22833?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CjwKEAiAluG1BRDrvsqCtYWk81gSJACZ2BCerSvrM9RaR2XUKapD3FVdkIOR0rtLbZqdLxdEybUO1RoCwDHw_wcBHardware: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/I...DV-wRoCvLzw_wcBAnd forget simple plug and play GM stuff, no setup required and all that. No, you get to learn how this stuff works if you want the BEST sounds. Now if you lower your sights a bit and want "good enough" sounds with GM capability then yes, the hardware Ketron SD2 for about $500 is right there or Sampletank 3 with some expansion soundsets. Oh, forgot no GM with Sampletank either except for the old Omnisynth that's not bad. There's even a good post about using it in the Tips & Tricks forum because it's still not easy plug and play but it can be made to work fairly close to that with a few hacks. And.. Have our best sound engineers on this forum select between 3 to 5 songs per genre, and record playback from each of the Synths listed above. Create a soundclips page so we could all listen for ourselves - and THEN continue this discussion. Already done, been there for years: http://www.pgmusic.com/dare-to-compare.htmBob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Tried this in biab and rb and though the GUI in the Rooland VA shows midi getting through to it, no sound. Messed around for a while to try and get it to work but no joy. Musiclover
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GM synths have an unjustified bad name with a few users - mostly users who have never had a good one.
GM simply assigns standard patch numbers with the same instruments so that sound (patch) #1 is a piano #33 is an acoustic bass and so on on all synths.
Some synths with GM banks are lame, and others sound excellent.
Some synths without GM banks are lame while others are excellent.
The presence of a General MIDI bank has absolutely nothing to do with sound, simply a standardization of the numbers used to call up various instrument sounds.
The Ketron SD2 and the Edirol SD90 both have excellent GM banks along with other sounds. I own those, that's how I know. Plus I'm sure there are plenty of others.
And if you don't want to learn to use continuous controllers, that's OK, but when making your own music, you will be limited by the sounds and not necessarily the nuances that make those instruments expressive. It's like learning to play guitar but not learning to bend the strings, adjust the angle of the pick on the strings, or use the pedals and whammy bar.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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what Notes said! I think it can be hard to wrap the brain around Midi, so let me say the same thing about GM in a slightly different way. 1) BIAB MIDI is presented to the synth using the General Midi patch numbers. So if you start with a GM synth, your piano parts will be played by a piano patch. string parts will be played by a string patch etc. In other words, a GM synth makes it easy to get your songs to sound right when used with BIAB or RB. Really no learning curve at all.. it just works. 2) Hardware synths that have a GM bank also typically have several NON GM banks... which means they probably include patches for lots of other instruments as well as many variations of the GM instruments. 3) If you like one of the non GM pianos better than the GM one, BIAB, RB and just about every other DAW provides a way to select any of the patches available in the synth. If you use a patch map, its as easy as picking the patch from a list (same as the GM patch map, only a lot more choices) so it doesn't have to be any more complicated than picking a patch right now if you use patch maps. And this is one advantage hardware synths have over soft synths: for most hardware synths you can find a patch map that's already made and ready to use in BIAB or RB. Sonar/Cakewalk users have compiled a huge list of patch maps (they call them "instrument definitions", or "INS files") but BIAB has a built-in conversion utility that can make a sonar INS file work as a BIAB patch map. quoting Notes Norton again: Ketron SD-2 is probably your best all-around choice for a reasonable price. Joe, you and I have talked in the past, and I feel like I know where you are coming from pretty well. If you want the convenience of good sounding MIDI in BIAB and RB without any learning curve at all, the Ketron is a good choice for you. And later, if you want more, it also has the non GM banks that will give you more options and many more instruments from which to choose. And I'm sure somebody here on the forum already has the Ketron's patch map, so you wouldn't have to search for it.
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