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So after considerable thought I realized I may be mixing my tracks in the wrong order. I'm talking about the stage in my production where I have decided all of my tracks are where I want them, and I will use these specific tracks in the final mix.
Here is the order/workflow I use to build my arrangement.
* Drums, Set level, add effects, revisit level
* Add Bass Set level, add effects, revisit level, Listen to Bass and Drums set relative levels
* Add Rhythm Instruments one at a time
******Set levels individually , add effects, revisit level, Listen to Drums, Bass with the Rhythm instruments
******Audition D,B,R adjust relative levels one last time.
******Render to .wav file, listen and determine if this is a good mix for the Rhythm Section of the song
* if yes go forward
* if not go back to Audition D,B, R (RS)and make adjustments. Possibly change Effects on individual tracks, revisit levels, render and listen again.
* Mix in lead vocals, Audition (solo) lead vocal track(s) add effects, set a good hot level.
***Listen to Rhythm section and Lead Vocals, set Vocal volume relative to RS, vocals should stand out.
*Mix in background Vocals,Set level, add effects, revisit level
*Mix in lead instruments,Set level, add effects, revisit level
*Mix in instrumental solos,Set level, add effects, revisit level
Last edited by dga; 04/22/16 03:09 PM.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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IMO....this is my decades old process. After getting the tracks FX decided on mute all tracks...and in this order of things: 1) Get a good mix with only lead vocal, kick, snare and bass track. (pan at 12:00) 2) Then mix in rhythm tracks for guitar, keyboards, synth pads, etc. (pan accordingly) 3) Then mix in hi-hat, cymbals, toms, percussion, etc. (pan accordingly) 4) Then mix in vocal harmonies. (pan accordingly) 5) Check final mix on various mediums if possible, take notes, remix if necessary. 6) Take an ear break for a day, listen again and repeat (5) until satisfied. 7) Mix at very low volume. I use some old Tascam S1010m's as small near fields at this juncture. If I can hear all tracks and just barely hear the bass axe I'll do a mix. Then I'll listen on my KRK Rockit 8's and push a bit more air around for further analysis. The summed stereo track of all I will have anywhere from -6 to -12 db and I'll master from there. Also...I think it's critical (over time) to actually know your monitors and monitoring environment which can minimize re-mix frustrations. I'm comfortable with my ability to mix to my satisfaction...if only I could feel the same about my voice I'd be sleeping in satin sheets. Of course, personal preference and certain genres may require a different approach. My songs are more rock/country rock so maybe folk, country, EDM is done quite differently. I'm still drinking morning mud so I may have missed a minor point or two and reserve the right to correct any unintentional oversight.  I'm sure others will chime in too and you can use your best judgment from all suggestions. Good luck....hope that helps....carry on.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 04/20/16 06:08 AM.
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Hi.
I've been at this for over forty years and one thing I've found is that lots of people are using different methods and each with a lot of success. At the end of the day, you find what works for you and if it sounds good, then it is good.
I personally work in much the same way as you've described, but with one big exception - I never add any effects until the tracks are mixed. This is, in fact, possibly the only thing which almost everyone I've worked with agrees upon. The sound of an instrument in isolation doesn't sound the same as the instrument in the mix and so you won't know if any effects are needed until the balance of the mix is complete.
Other than that, you appear to me to be on the right lines.
ROG.
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Mixing tracks:
I throw them all into the DAW at once.... normally about 4 to 8 tracks created in Real Band at the same general time frame.
I add envelopes to all and start with the drums and bass.... EQ, and set beginning levels.
Add rhythm instruments.... EQ and set levels. Pan as needed.
Record a scratch vocal.
Add other instruments....EQ pan and levels with nodes.
Working on production and the finished product from the very start..... add what's missing, remove what's not needed....
refine the mix as I go and add harmony vox and record the lead vox....
Generally, it goes this way.... but nothing is every carved into stone on how I approach the mixing process other than I'm thinking about the end right from the beginning and everything I do is working towards that end.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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IMO....this is my decades old process. After getting the tracks FX decided on mute all tracks...and in this order of things: 1) Get a good mix with only lead vocal, kick, snare and bass track. (pan at 12:00) 2) Then mix in rhythm tracks for guitar, keyboards, synth pads, etc. (pan accordingly) 3) Then mix in hi-hat, cymbals, toms, percussion, etc. (pan accordingly) 4) Then mix in vocal harmonies. (pan accordingly) 5) Check final mix on various mediums if possible, take notes, remix if necessary. 6) Take an ear break for a day, listen again and repeat (5) until satisfied. 7) Mix at very low volume. I use some old Tascam S1010m's as small near fields at this juncture. If I can hear all tracks and just barely hear the bass axe I'll do a mix. Then I'll listen on my KRK Rockit 8's and push a bit more air around for further analysis. The summed stereo track of all I will have anywhere from -6 to -12 db and I'll master from there. Also...I think it's critical (over time) to actually know your monitors and monitoring environment which can minimize re-mix frustrations. I'm comfortable with my ability to mix to my satisfaction...if only I could feel the same about my voice I'd be sleeping in satin sheets. Of course, personal preference and certain genres may require a different approach. My songs are more rock/country rock so maybe folk, country, EDM is done quite differently. I'm still drinking morning mud so I may have missed a minor point or two and reserve the right to correct any unintentional oversight. I'm sure others will chime in too and you can use your best judgment from all suggestions. Good luck....hope that helps....carry on. Thanks, I mix at very HIGH levels, and then listen at medium to low levels, is that wrong? I spend a disproportional amount of time on my Drums and Vocals. I don't have to explain why on the Vocals, but, on the drums in RB imported RD do not have the Kick, Snare, HH, Toms, Cymbals, on separate tracks in a different post I'll explain what I do to compensate for this. It is the only downfall I have had working with RD in RB. SO I apply various effects to isolate these parts.
Last edited by dga; 04/20/16 09:06 AM.
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Hi.
I've been at this for over forty years and one thing I've found is that lots of people are using different methods and each with a lot of success. At the end of the day, you find what works for you and if it sounds good, then it is good.
I personally work in much the same way as you've described, but with one big exception - I never add any effects until the tracks are mixed. This is, in fact, possibly the only thing which almost everyone I've worked with agrees upon. The sound of an instrument in isolation doesn't sound the same as the instrument in the mix and so you won't know if any effects are needed until the balance of the mix is complete.
Other than that, you appear to me to be on the right lines.
ROG. ROG I'm going to try adding the effects after I mix the Drums,Bass, and rhythm.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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Hi. I personally work in much the same way as you've described, but with one big exception - I never add any effects until the tracks are mixed. This is, in fact, possibly the only thing which almost everyone I've worked with agrees upon. The sound of an instrument in isolation doesn't sound the same as the instrument in the mix and so you won't know if any effects are needed until the balance of the mix is complete. Other than that, you appear to me to be on the right lines. ROG. Howdy...I should have been more clear. If you were responding to me....I totally agree. But, unlike myself, it seems many do choose print with FX as with the OP. Personally, I just don't see that approach as a good reference point to mix from. To each their own. I use FX sparingly (vocals/guitar in my case) and it's in the FX bin as an insert...I don't render FX on individual tracks. I, as yourself, mix totally dry. I like a clean mix done in a dead room environment. If you were actually responding to the OP please ignore my comments. Back to it...
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Thanks, I mix at very HIGH levels, and then listen at medium to low levels, is that wrong? [/quote] IMO..."Wrong"...I would not be so presumptuous to tell anyone that in this context. But...it's not necessary. Mixing at high levels will eventually fatigue the ears and soon enough one will lose sonic perspective. The mix you think was great tonight could sound like canine defecation when you listen again in the morning with fresh ears...just a thought. Plus, getting the bass to sit well in a mix at all levels is one of the toughest goals trying to achieve a good final. Mixing at very low levels initially (as I state above) can mitigate both issues. When you think you have good mix....stand up...get farther from the monitors and push a bit more air with some volume...see what you think. The RB drum tracks are already mixed pretty well. So..if you really need to split some trap set hairs I would just use some EQ to bring out what what you think is missing....as you stated. IE: some crack of the snare, sheen on the hi-hat/cymbals or some distinctive thud on the kick. To qualify my historic perpsective, up until I got BIAB I always used midi drums and having the ability to have separate tracks for the trap set. That's my take on it....back to it.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 04/20/16 09:42 AM.
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Thanks, 1966
I might clarify a bit, I mix at high levels meaning I will listen to a 3-4 minute song at a high level while working on the. Then listen at low to medium levels to evaluate the mix. Is that going to give me a good mix?
I guess my standard for the sound of Kick Drum is set rather high, running live sound for over 2 decades. I want a real thump from the Kick, I want a snap in the snare. So when I turn the set up these are very live sounding. (I will put another post up on how I do this with RD.) Yes MIDI drums will solve a lot of my problems but I do not have a source for MIDI drums that comes any where near the quality of the samples in PG's RDs.
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On the levels issue, I mix at comfortably low levels but frequently turn the volume down until I can barely hear the song. Then, if I can still hear each instrument, I know my mix will work.
Of course, this assumes my equipment, listening room and ears are all in very good order. If they aren't, then experiment how to compensate.
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Thanks, 1966 I might clarify a bit, I mix at high levels meaning I will listen to a 3-4 minute song at a high level while working on the. Then listen at low to medium levels to evaluate the mix. Is that going to give me a good mix? Sure....it "could" give you a good mix....or it could just as easily prolong that goal. I just don't think it's the best approach. I can only emphasize....save your ears and sense of sonic perceptions. Most of us (me inclusive) have sat and mixed for too many hours at a time more than once.....because we're impassioned by the quest for the perfect (for lack of better description) mix. Developing a good, repeatable mixing technique is a time saver. I'm well aware it's difficult to change one's mixing habits with suggestions offered here. Using my approach at mixing at very low levels when I crank the volume to revel in my efforts I'm very close to the mix I'm looking for. The vocals are up front and the bass sits well in the mix at all levels. Only a minor adjustment is about it. I'd suggest to try it just once with a song that's challenging your patience. If you think I wasted your time....I'll buy us a pitcher of Sam Adams...or two. If you actually prefer Hamm's....I know a good therapist. Respectfully submitted.....
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On the levels issue, I mix at comfortably low levels but frequently turn the volume down until I can barely hear the song. Then, if I can still hear each instrument, I know my mix will work. Yep... That's what I do with my Tascam S1010m's which are tiny near fields about 3' apart and I'm 3' from them. I don't do this mix approach on the KRK's...those are for higher volume and pushing more air. If tha bass line can barely be heard with with some listening concentration I run with that as my first mix. Back to it....
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Thanks, 1966 I might clarify a bit, I mix at high levels meaning I will listen to a 3-4 minute song at a high level while working on the. Then listen at low to medium levels to evaluate the mix. Is that going to give me a good mix? I'd suggest to try it just once with a song that's challenging your patience. If you think I wasted your time....I'll buy us a pitcher of Sam Adams...or two. If you actually prefer Hamm's....I know a good therapist. Respectfully submitted..... I asked the question not for agreement but for suggestions just like yours 1966. I am in the process of mixing a song with your suggestion in mind. Thanks.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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[quote=chulaivet1966][quote=dga] I asked the question not for agreement but for suggestions just like yours 1966. I am in the process of mixing a song with your suggestion in mind. Thanks. Ha...got it. I am trying to help you home in on a successful, repeatable mixing technique without coming off as I'm lecturing anyone....that would suck to be interpreted that way. Keep us informed....especially, what didn't meet your expectation or any epiphany in process that we all can learn from. Carry on.... EDIT: rharv just reminded me of something I forgot to mention. I do some minor EQing prior to first mix also if needed on bass, rhythm axe (for any mid-range mud) and vocals. I sometimes need a 100hz - 200hz cut of about 1-2 db. Thx rharv....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 04/20/16 02:21 PM.
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(my opinion/methods)
/not meant to be a rule for anyone/
I look at mixing like a 2 stage process.
Premix:
EQ is OK but not much else.
Get the bass/drums working together.
Mix in rhythm section with emphasis on rhythm section
^ I say that because at this point I can likely go back and re-EQ bass/drums to fit again.
Take a break.
Mix in other parts using same rules.
Main Mix:
Add a Room EQ in an AUX slot
Readjust the effect(s) and the tracks to fit.
Start working my way through each track, defining them individually. This is *usually* done in the same order (drums,bass,rhythm,leads) but may vary depending on the piece. If it is mainly a vocal solo/piano piece obviously those take priority.
Take a break.
Go back and tinker with Room EQ and then tracks, and then envelopes, and then tracks and then .. seemingly forever.
Eventually call it done (for now)
Revisit a week later and adjust.
To me an important step: revisit again when you notice something.
I still remix stuff for CD's that are long out of production ..
I hear things I've done and think 'this would improve that' .. so I go back and do it over for the experience.
Never stop mixing = never stop getting better at it.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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rharv? can you describe how you add a room effect?
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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A light reverb added in the AUX send, meant (usually) to give the separate drum tracks a cohesive sound and bring out a little ringing, then can later add other tracks to the same effect using the AUX slots and the AUX sends in the mixer.
Some times I have two AUXs used; one for drums, one for vocals .. since there will likely be multiple vocal tracks .. Depending on the bass sound I may want to send that to one of the two.
Basically I try to get 'grouping' done .. helps me get started down the road.
The above FX will get adjusted along the way of course.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I was using different Aux for each track since there are 8 AUX, but pairing them as you do is a good idea.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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Can't do that when working on songs with 20+ tracks ... <grin>
If you are doing every track, might as well do it at the track level and use the 'wet/dry' mix in the effect ...
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Have not worked with more than 10 tracks so my HAT is off to anyone who does.
On the vocal and drum tracks I am working with multiple duplicated tracks so I use the same aux in addition to the Track effect.
I have not liked the wet dry mix of PGs reverb, so I choose to have 1 track set to Dry and a Track 100% reverb and mix them together. This allows me to use an envelope on the reverb track to bring in more or less reverb throughout the song.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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