I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface which I only use for mixing (no live instruments, plugged into my CPU soundcard), which I am very happy with.
But, since you guys suggested I mix with headphones (at least for starting), rather than monitors, which may be the best advice I've ever received here, the volume knob for headphone output is tiny and actually a little hard to turn, get a grip on.
The 2i2's monitor volume knob is nice and big and I can ride it with my hand, keeping a new, unknown volume track from blasting me, or just for a moment. The cans's knob is too small and not enough room to do that.
So I plugged the cans into the outgoing monitor ports on the 2i2 using a splitter (2 ports are 1/4 inch, combining in the 1/4 headphones), and that works, but I'm not certain there is a degradation in the quality of the sound signal into the cans. I definitely have to crank the monitor volume knob farther, about 80%,than using monitors or the cans's volume knob (50%). My hearing is not great, so I can't be certain is that's what I'm hearing (relative term), but I'd like the best sound possible of course.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
The monitor outputs are what is known as "line out" if you want to read more about it. As you discovered, it is similar to but different from a headphone signal.
I'm surprised you learned from here that mixing with headphones is preferred. It is not. Headphones should be used to test a mix but not as the only way to make one unless you absolutely cannot use good nearfield monitors.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Thanks. Matt. I hear what you're saying. Oh, that's rich!
I think using cans for me is what they meant, and I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but my hearing is an issue. I really need a clear sound. All monitors sound the same to me and I could not believe the difference cans have made for me. So much precision. I had to get used to hearing my heart beat. I guess I can't worry about what others hear, I can only do what sounds good to me, then they are on their own!
Last edited by Andy A - USA; 03/29/1710:08 AM.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
Hi Andy I have the same audio interface and I must say I don't have a problem at all with the headphone volume knob. I'm dialing it all the time.
As for headphone mixing, I alternate between that and my KRK monitors consistently. Maybe it's the cans but I hear more detail through those - great for editing, esp. vox. But I don't trust a mix is right unless I hear it through the speakers.
Andy, I suspect the headphone knobs on my Scarlett 18i20 are the same size as yours, and I see your point. On mine, I have three such knobs all next to one another.
Yes, if you have hearing issues, using headphones make more sense. I don't recall if it was about you, but we did have a long discussion here about that and someone here works in that field. All I can say is, whatever method you use can be made to work if you learn its limitations and test your mixes on a variety of sources, one of which must be traditional monitors (others include cars, boom boxes, earbuds, iPhone speakers etc.). Headphones are particularly best for checking the stereo field (left to right, mono, noise canceling) but are particularly bad for getting the bass levels right.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Knowing that there is a difference between the monitor and can output from the 2I2 is very helpful. So, knowing that, I'll rig something up on the small knob. Maybe a rubber gasket ring and superglue, or even a small lever making it a little like a boat throttle. I'm inventive and have ruined more stuff than you can imagine!
Perhaps it was Steve, Matt. He's helping me with some layers of EQ plug-ins and settings to help compensate for my bell-curve loss. I'm so lucky to have stumbled into a guy in that field. What are the odds?
You are a dexterous man, Match! My guitar callouses are slick so maybe that's it, though I'm sure you have them also. Who knows. I'll be good to go shortly, or will be buying a new unit!
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
First... mixing on cans. The general school of thought is that you should mix on studio grade reference monitors and test on everything else including cans. The main reason being that cans, and all home stereo speakers have a coloration bias that will throw your mix off. However, if cans are all you have, certainly, go ahead and mix on them but understand their inherent bias. Most speakers and cans are designed to have a certain sound. Some boost the bass, others have a mid bump.... all to make the music sound like ear candy. If you are listening on a bass heavy biased source, you tend to have mixes with very little bass in them. Whatever the bias happens to be, your mix on that source will tend to go in the opposite direction. Folks mixing on a pair of inexpensive, tiny 3" monitors, tend to have too much bass in their mixes and so on.
If you go to a music store that has a studio pro-audio department, you can often A/B the various studio monitor brands side by side. I'm here to tell you that every single one of them sounds different from the ones setting next to it playing the same source music. It boils down to one thing. You have to find a pair of monitors you can afford, like how they look, and like how they sound. Then, you have to take them home, set them up and learn them inside and out in a musical way. Play commercially produced music through them so you can hear how they sound, and them start mixing through them and learn their characteristics so you are able to get a good, workable mix that translates well across most consumer systems.
Second, the reason there's a bit of..as you called it... sound degradation... is because there's an impedance mismatch with the cans connected. The output has an impedance designed for the input to a powered speaker's preamp section. The power transfer is less than efficient.
The simplest solution is not to add gizmos to the signal path but to use some sort of amp designed for cans. I used my old stereo receiver/amp as the monitor amp. I have an interface with 8 outputs on the back. I ran one of the pairs to the AUX input on the stereo system amp and used it to power the cans. I could also very easily use the stereo on speakers to "check the mix". If you have an old stereo system laying around collecting dust or one that you use that has an unused AUX IN on it, try that. Shut off the speakers and see how that works.
A bit later, I actually purchased a 4 output headphone amp to use instead of the stereo since the stereo only allowed one headphone set at a time and no way to control volume on the individual ones if I used a "Y-cord" as a cheater.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 03/30/1702:52 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Yep, a headphone amp is a nice feature. I love using mine when I've got multiple people over. Or just when I record a podcast for my wife; she can hear how she's sounding and I can hear what's coming into the computer.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
I understand that everything will have a different quality of sound, car, studio monitors, cans, home stereo, and that having a good set of monitors, and a good set of cans is a good place to start. I have space limitations for monitors, or placement limitations is perhaps a better description. I'd need to set them up in a different room, which would be great for testing, just like taking a drive/cd player, but probably not a reasonable set up for mixing.
I've gone thru a couple sets of monitors, and certainly heard a difference, and I like the monitors I have. I should use them more, maybe 50/50; mix with cans, switch to monitors, freak, adjust mix, continue.
I'm trying to get an album done now and have a deadline looming. Need it done/cds in-hand May 1.
Pray for me.
And thanks again for all the tips. Good stuff.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
And more than the room, I always take a CD out to the car and listen there, as that's where most of the folks I know now seem to listen to music (if not through their earbuds with their phone). Fewer and fewer people are buying nice stereo equipment, so the music needs to be tested in mulitple places.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
Well worth it, especially if multiple headphones are ever needed. That said, one of the ones I use has one set of headphones plugged in most of the time .. still glad I have it. Easy control, ability to add more headphones if needed, and does what a headphone amp is supposed to do. If you have a CD due in a month, and you are not using trusted monitors on your computer while you mix, you got a lot of extra pressure. If you have to rely on headphones, a good headphone amp may be well worth it.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
I'm trying to get an album done now and have a deadline looming. Need it done/cds in-hand May 1.
Be sure the audio quality is dead on perfect before you go to print. Better to be late and have a good sounding project than to rush it and end up with something that only sounds good on your system.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Eventually, I'll have several other ears listen to the mix, so I can blame them. But it's a showcase at a place in Portland that's been in biz for 50 years, they lost their lease, rents have gone crazy here, and it will be my last time to play there. It's like our "Bluebird Café" or "Bitter End"...a listening room and a folk peeps dream.
So, the date is hard. I'll make it. I have 3 weeks before I need to go to print and I have everything lined up, artwork, cd replication company, etc.
The hardest thing now is focusing on songs I can feel good about in a mix, rather than reinventing the wheel on them. Which I'm doing right now...changing everything on a song....#$&@!
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
And you are absolutely right about getting something I can be proud of before printing. Luckily, this crowd likes me and have been asking for some of these songs for a while. I won't sell as many as you guys do, but in my little pond, it'll prob be a lot for me.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
I've had delays in shipping from the CD manufacturing companies despite their promised timetable. I've also had questions about artwork where they held up the printing process but didn't contact me for instructions for days. Be aware. Good luck.
I assume you're talking Portland, Oregon here. Rents in Maine shouldn't be that bad yet.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Ha! Funny you'd say that, I was living in Boston and got the word the next project was in Portland. Right up the highway, been there may times. I didn't know until a week before it was Oregon. I didn't even know where Oregon really was.
I'm giving them and extra week as a buffer so I hope the cds will make that (fingers crossed). I use CD Baby and they are here (in Portland, OR) 20 minutes away, so I can storm the doors if needed.
Last edited by Andy A - USA; 03/31/1709:44 AM.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
After CDBaby prints your CD that you want to sell, and you pay them for their services, watch Youtube. They may post it there for people to listen .. for free. Worst of all, now youtube has re-arranged the song order to be horrendous if you listen to our 'collection' in the order they present it. That was part of our work, how one song went into the next. It's like a random (public) remix of our work.
Sorry, I was just disappointed that a service I paid for gave my work away without some restrictions. I think having copyrighted this collection as a 'work' may give us a leg to stand on, but I don't think it's battle I am going to choose to engage in.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
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