All i'm saying is that In the situation as it stands poeple will do what they have to do in the absence of adequate enforcement. The question is what is being done about that? Is there an aim to do away with a gun owning culture by trying to make policing better, to spend more on education create a fairer safer society or is there just a resignation about the whole thing?

It might be naive to expect much to be done about it given America's lack of propensity for collective provision of anything far less making its streets safe but it's not hypocritical to say thats whats needed. It's hypocritical to say you're concerned about crime and then merely say that nothing needs to be done about it except ensure that everyone has access to guns. As if somehow that will be enough.

My point is that you seems to be extolling gun ownership as something that prevents crime, almost as an ideal. I dont see it that way. If youre as concerned about crime you say you area then you'll take on board my point about the underlying issues.

This is my last word on this as its late here (4.30am!!) and i dont think we're going to have much more to say to each other, so entrenched are your views on gun ownership and America's 'greatness'.

Regards

Alan