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....play it without analyzing it - assuming you know the first note, and the melody really well from listening and singing along.
For years - I've been wanting to do this....and I still can't - and I'm finally thinking it may be largely due to a lack of natural ability making it harder for me than others - or the wrong approach....I have tried and done some ear training, but not stuck with it....but on that topic, ear training is boring as hell and very, very, very hard for me - for those of you that can do what I described, did you learn through traditional ear training ? - or are there other ways. My very experienced guitar teacher hears a chord and the voicing - and his fingers find it almost immediatley - but then again, he is a full-time professional musician with exceptional talent....
Another thing I've noticed about my inability to do this - is that I've never really been able to hear and figure out bass lines easily - a teacher I went to recently felt that he is able to do what I described by hearing the bass lines, knowing the interval between them - and then deciding on whether the chord is major, minor, or dominant...
I've learned my songs by rote memory, with an understanding of their function, and memorizing the sequence by playing it over and over again and developing muscle memory in my hands/fingers to help - lately, I've been trying to hear the bass lines better, and be able to play and sing the song only with the bass line (or root notes on the guitar) - then adding the chords, which is more similar to the approach the teacher I mentioned above uses. I'm also trying to learn the bass line with numbers in addition to note names (something new for me). Again - really hard for me.
Now - maybe I just haven't played enough in my life, or done the ear training with programs enough - like I've been told....or maybe there are some other ways to practice and learn this that aren't as boring as the ear training ? I have limited time to play - and I really like the idea of knowing and memorizing songs as I develop this skill. Right now - I'm working on 4 Cat Stevens classics (aside - who likes the Cat ? - and don't bring his religion into this lol):
1.) Father and Son G
2.) Morning Has Broken - starts in D - a few little modulations in the intro progression, and in the entire verse/chorus
3.) Peace Train
4.) Wild World
No matter how well I know the melody and review the chords - my fingers never seem to get to the next chord easily and natrually - almost always a really long, rote process that doesn't carry over to figuring out the next song.
Thanks for listening.
Best,
Joe V.
Last edited by Joe V; 01/20/19 07:28 AM.
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Ya, you have to "hear\feel" the chord changes. It takes both time and talent. The more of the later the less of the former or vice-a-versa.  And regarding Cat, you ain't alone my friend.  Father and Son
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By “playing it” do you mean, for example, simply strumming the chord changes with no melodic hints, no runs, no fills or other embellishments?
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Bud, I've never been able to figure out how musicians can look at a melody lead sheet and call the changes based on that information. I get that you can strum in a root and then pretty much fall into the 4, the 5, or the minor. People including some very successful ones, do that all the time. What seems to be the desired skill is the ability to change on the right note.
I have had people tell me, well, it is the dominant feel of the bar that determines the chord. OK, fine, but in the sheets I play, there are patterns, say 2 bars C; 2 bars F; two of C and two of G. That's just one example. In front of me know is one in CMaj that begins e-a-g / e-f#-g.....That's comped with a Cmaj chord.
To me, it has to be a rhythm thing. But I know there is another level I'm not quite getting. This is composer stuff.
Last edited by edshaw; 01/20/19 08:11 AM.
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Learning music theory helps a ton for this. Yes, I've played with guys that can hear something and play it, but have no idea of the theory behind it. I've also worked with people that understand theory and it makes learning (and writing) a song so much easier. First learn the intervals; what does a root-5-root sound like (easy) Then root-4-root (again easy) Then minor 3rd root (again easy) Then move on, there really aren't that many. https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/song-references-for-interval-ear-training-et-099Once you can hear intervals, the bass part becomes easier. Once you learn theory the rest makes sense, and it's based on the same intervals. We only have 12 notes to play with. It's like learning a new language but with only twelve characters. When I first heard Al Stewart's Year of the Cat I just had to learn those chords and why they worked like they did .. then I listened to the next song on the album (yeah it was back in the vinyl days) and had to learn On the Border (the 9ths, and the same melodic line working over different chords intrigued me). Have fun while doing it, but really worth learning the theory behind it all.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Hey Music Student - like your cover of Father and Son....when I first heard it, your vocal style reminded me a little of Johnny Cash - are you also a fan of Johnny C. ?
Yes Janice (or Bud ?) - that's what I mean - just strumming the right chords at the right time - adding nothing else...in fact, I can hear and play back melodies pretty well - but it's the chords that are my Achilles heal...I'm sure hearing chords like this is what separates the men from the boys - melodies are in the forefront and much easier to hear because of this - chords on the other hand - involve a lot of inference and are often more in the background sonically, so to speak.
RHarv - I know the theory....for me, I think there's a natural talent piece (and years of practice) that I'm missing and need to overcome. Also - being able to hear the intervals in isolation has not yet transferred to hearing the bass note well in the absence of the song playing, which is something important I think....
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Also - I suppose I should have asked this - how many times do you have to play a song before it is 'in your fingers for life'...quite often I learn a few songs, stop practicing them - and it's quite a bit of practice to get them back. And of course - it's different depending on so many things....maybe just asking so I don't feel bad for the length of time it takes for me ; )
Now some of the first songs I ever learned on the guitar are with me for life - and come to think of it - it probably took way, way, more plays of them to get them under my fingers since I was a beginner.
So often - I can play along with the lead sheet and feel like I can potentially sound pretty good - but then never get them to the point where they are in me permanently....
Back to how many times do you have to play and practice - for me, it's got to be in the hundreds, though if you start actually counting, I can see that leading to frustration.
Daily practice and review of everything learned - which can take a long, long time as your song list goes into the 'tens' - can be quite demanding and time consuming.
Again - I realize practice and time commitment separate the men from the boys....I'm just looking to make sure my practice brings the best bang for the buck - I'm not looking for any shortcuts, though for all my years, I wish I was closer to this 'play by ear' (if you know the song inside out) kind of skill.
Last edited by Joe V; 01/20/19 08:19 AM.
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If you can't hear the root (bass note) in your head, that would certainly make things difficult. I don't know how to teach that. Do you have a bass? Might be one way to try. So often - I can play along with the lead sheet and feel like I can potentially sound pretty good - but then never get them to the point where they are in me permanently....
I don't know if they are ever permanent. Especially as you get older. <grin> Example: Walk This Way .. played it many times with many bands (and many renditions) .. but I'd need a few minutes to remember it on guitar right now. Then again I could probably sit down and write out 6 Wives of Henry the 8th about 90% accurate without touching an instrument. Weird, now that I think of it.
Last edited by rharv; 01/20/19 08:31 AM.
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When I say I can't hear the root notes - I mean in the ABSENCE of the sheet music or the original recording playing....I'm wondering if you can hear what the root is while recalling the melody, as long as you know the key and the first melody note or chord....
Then again - memory is a tricky thing - sometimes you remember stuff you don't want to - or get a tune stuck in your head - a riff or something you don't even like (one of my friends shared that he had that keyboard riff to Billy Joel's 'the entertainer' going on for far too long)...also depends on the emotional component assiciated with what you're remembering....
Last edited by Joe V; 01/20/19 09:44 AM.
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I always thought the piano was an easier way to chart songs from the radio than the guitar. Now, I realize it is the other way around.
Most melodies may be recognized with the 1-3-5 of the dominant chord. That means nine notes, for all practical purposes, the triads of the 1-4-5. That's kind of what make BaiB work. The mind will fill in what isn't there.
Last edited by edshaw; 01/20/19 11:59 AM.
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Joe,
I'm a keyboard player and early on in life (18-30 years old), I was a keyboard salesman. At one of the places I worked, a shopping centre, I used to spend much of the day playing songs. It was at this job that I learnt to play by ear. And you're right. It takes practice.
What I found was that once I had mastered one song by ear, each successive song got easier. This job really changed my life and my approach to music!
To make life playing in a shopping a bit more interesting, some days can be pretty long, I used to challenge myself to play in different keys. I found the melodies easy to transpose in my head because I had a good understanding of scales and once I'd learnt to trust my ear, going from note to note in different keys was fairly straightforward.
To transpose chords, initially I began by using scales. As time progressed, though, I found that thinking of chords as I, IV, V made life much much easier. In Nashville notation this would be 1, 4, 5. Doing this, I managed to comfortably play any song that I learnt by ear in keys up to 4 sharps and 4 flats. While I'm not good enough to play a song after hearing it one time only, once I've heard a song a few times and I can hum along with it, I can then usually play it. I found lyrics also helped me remember the melody.
So, at the end of the day, my ability to play by ear came from the following...
1. Learning scales as it makes playing melodic intervals in different keys easier.
2. Learning chords as I (tonic), IV (subdominant), V(dominant), II (supertonic), III (mediant), VI (submediant), VII (subtonic)
3. Learning to identify the nature/texture of a chord sound... for example: the major sound, the minor sound, the seventh sound, the diminished sound, the augmented sound. These are the ones that form the basis of 99% of chords. Once the nature of a chord is identified, it's then only necessary to put a pitch to it.
4. Learning the lyrics.
For me, playing by ear is more about "playing by theory" with confidence in my ear's ability to identify what I'm hearing.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Thanks all for your great insights...
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I think you are reaching too far to start. Ear training of individual notes is not going to teach you how to accompany a melody.
Chord theory and understanding ‘the principle of minimal movement ‘ to go from one chord to the next by taking advantage of the inversion of the next chord that requires the least movement of your right hand primarily, is one of the secrets to comping along without effort. Those movements become 2nd nature. This is true for both keyboards and guitars.
What is your motivation for striving for this?
For me, I got hooked on all the add2 and sus4 chords I heard in Journey songs when Cain joined the band.
Once I could sing while comping the chords, girls would come and sit next to me on the piano bench. No greater motivator than that to a sophomore in high school. Then they would sing along as well.
Learning guitar was a different motivation for me. I’m glad I learned chord theory from my piano teacher; as it eased transition to doing the same on guitar.
Work on those inversions for simple I IV V sequences first until you can do it in all keys, and starting the sequence from all of the inversions
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I had not really come across the I, IV, V methods until fairly recently. We learnt by knowing your open chords then barring them up the fret board. We knew heaps of “patterns” and normally someone would simply call out a song, the key, then into we went. Sitting in with a number of different groups soon had you learning, rarely did we have chord sheets or the like. If there was something you didn’t know you’d sit back a bit, but it didn’t take long and you’d have it.
In later years I became involved in a number of country music clubs usually playing lead but lead players also play rhythm. Usually folk showed up with some sort of chord sheets but rarely were they correct and often the person singing would miss the key. Once again one soon learnt how tunes hung together.
How do you learn? Get involved with a group of interested folk and jump in, you’ll soon find your feet.
Just some experiences
Tony
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I've heard it all before. Ear training is boring. Scales are boring. Music theory is boring. Learning to read music is boring. etc. etc. etc.
Remember when you were young and spelling cat C - A - T was an accomplishment and then larger words?
Music is like that. It's slow going at first, but the more you learn and the more experience you have, the better you will get at it.
It's a matter of jut putting the time in, and getting the "this is boring" thing out of your mind. IMHO If you fight it, it's only going to get harder.
Insights and incites by Notes
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I've heard it all before. Ear training is boring. Scales are boring. Music theory is boring. Learning to read music is boring. etc. etc. etc.
Remember when you were young and spelling cat C - A - T was an accomplishment and then larger words?
Music is like that. It's slow going at first, but the more you learn and the more experience you have, the better you will get at it.
It's a matter of jut putting the time in, and getting the "this is boring" thing out of your mind. IMHO If you fight it, it's only going to get harder.
Insights and incites by Notes Excellent advice here. To add to it if you fight it you could develop bad techniques. They would become harder to correct then learning it correctly the first time. Baby steps man, baby steps.
Dad, how will I know when I've become an adult.
When your day is ruined because they rearranged the grocery store.
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Good honest discussion, I think you can become a good enough guitarist with average intelligence and a good deal of practice.
I don't consider myself to have any real musical talent, to be honest its not a thing you hear musicians say often "hey I don't have much natural musical talent, its just practice that got me where I am" Maybe they feel its a sign of weakness to say that.
That's not to say there aren't some really gifted musicians around, but from the time I went to guitar lessons I have never met many, just people who practice a lot on their instrument.
Probably I am not mixing with the right people either!
As regards not knowing chord changes don't worry too much about it (plenty of chord charts around) from my limited musical theory, the melody note is usually in the chord on the down beat.
Rather a simplistic way to look at it I know, and doesn't apply all the time.
Wish I had a better ear too, but best way is to try and enjoy what you play.
Try Riffstation free by the way, nice way to learn a song.
Last edited by musiclover; 01/21/19 10:19 AM.
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I learned a lot of this about 40 years ago. It's not really that hard if you are willing to put in the time. Once you figure out what is happening, repetition will teach you to do it well.
As for playing without analyzing, I'm not sure that's possible. What many of us do is play enough (like Notes and Noel said) that we hear changes we have played in different songs. Your mind is analyzing but you don't realize it. Kind of like driving after a few years.
Two things helped me a lot. The first was learning scale degrees. The second was sight singing, a form of ear training. If you can find some songs that use a few common intervals, you can do a lot. Try 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 1-3-5, 1 to 4, 1 to 5. For example, 1-3-5 is the first three notes of Johnny B. Good. 1 to 4 is Here Comes the Bride. Even though these are not chords, this knowledge can help you figure out chords.
There is a lot of good advice above. Hope you find something that works for you.
2b
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Simple thing. Take theory lessons. No shortcuts to the kind of learning you want to do. To do this you really need some theory so you know what a 4th and a 5th are.
There are truly no shortcuts in music. You can watch mechanics build engines your whole life but if you don't know a piston from a pushrod, you can't build one. You can apply that logic to any field you like. Cooking, ice skating, creative writing.... You can watch Bobby Flay cook all you want but if you don't know cooking basics like mise en place, blanch and parboil, you can't cook. You can't learn to skate by watching people skate if you don't know about edges and flats. You couldn't do heart surgery if you don't know auricle, ventricle and aorta.
I have watched person after person in my life try to sneak into the music circus by crawling under the tent. Buy a ticket. The metaphor being "put in the work". Take lessons to learn basic theory. 1-4-5 is a nickname. The terms are root (or tonic), subdominant and dominant. WHY they are called that is what will help you.
Here's lesson one.
Every major scale is created with moves of whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step. Every note on that scale has a name.
Tonic
Supertonic
Mediant
Subdominant
Dominant
Submediant
Leading note
Tonic
Do you need to know that to strum chords around the campfire? Nope. Do you need that to follow along in a session where the leader holds up 4 fingers to signify a change to the 4th note on the scale, the subdominant chord? Yep.
If you are in E, and you see a "4", you know that is an A (from your theory of scales) but is it a Ab, an A, or an A#? You know from knowing scale structure that the 4th note on a major scale is a while, whole, half, whole step from the root, which makes it A natural. Not sharped, not flatted. That's what "natural" means.
Now that glosses over the fact that if you don't know what half and whole steps are, it's deer in the headlights time.
Go to your local community college and take a music 101 class. In that 9 weeks you will learn scales, chord structures and the circle of 5ths. That will take you a LONG way.
But once again, there are no shortcuts, and none of us can learn or practice for you. If you want it, put in the time and effort. April will mark 63 years since I started lessons, and THIS stuff is what I learned first, at 2 months less than age 5. If a kid under 5 can learn it, you can too.
Do you want it?
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/21/19 03:22 PM.
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Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
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