PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production Absolute beginner needing help choosing DAW and sound libraries

If you want the TL;DR version of this post: I'm a newbie to music production who is used to writing sheet music on Sibelius (orchestral, piano, jazz, latin, folk) & I'd like to get into producing and need help choosing a DAW and some sound libraries, up to max budget of £1,000 (~$1,300).

My current specs/equipment are at the end of this post but I guess I should say now I use Windows, so that rules out Logic Pro.


Otherwise:

Hi, this might be quite a long post so apologies, but I really need some help and I've found the users on this forum to be really knowledgeable (and kind with their time!) so, I thank you very much in advance.

Also I'm aware that a lot of the information I'm asking for is available out there & I don't want to come off as lazy by asking all this on here, but I have spent countless hours over the last few months trying to figure this all out for myself and I've really not made the progress I had hoped and I need to make some decisions about what to buy within the next 1-2 months.


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Summary
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In a nutshell, I'm a long-time composer (Sibelius), very comfortable with producing sheet music for live performance. I'd now like to start getting in to producing my own music i.e. creating music that is fit for putting on SoundCloud and the like.

The music I write varies a lot - jazz, latin, folk, rock/pop, classical, all sorts.

I have a little bit of experience with recording (Cool Edit Pro... don't laugh!) and I've been using Band in a Box for a little over a year and I'm pretty comfortable with it.

Other than that, I have very little experience with any other music-making/producing software.


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Choosing a DAW
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I've read a lot about these and figure I probably need to get one, I really don't know what is going to be right for me. I installed Avid's Pro Tools First (the free version) intending to follow the tutorials, but I've not been able to set it up. I just get a lot of error messages, which I won't go into now.

I would like a DAW which has an emphasis on ease of use and smoothness of workflow, though to be 100% honest I'm not entirely sure what that means. In an ideal world, I'd like to use MIDI files exported from Sibelius as my starting point, so if there are any particular DAWs suited to that then that would be good to know.

I was initially drawn to Pro Tools because it's by Avid, like Sibelius, so I thought there might be some cross-compatibility there, but as I've not been able to get it working yet I don't know.

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Choosing sounds
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I'm assuming that I'll probably be needing some extra sounds. Again, I've had a good look online and there is an awful lot of choice...

I guess to begin with I'd want a good general instrument sound set (orchestral). If I can afford anything else after that then I'd like to get some good horn (especially trumpet and sax) sounds. I've heard that Broadway Big Band is good but it's mega expensive!


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Basic Current Specs
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O/S: Windows 7 (let me know if you need my PC specs)
Audio Interface: Behringer UMC 202HD
Keyboard: Kawai ES110 (though I prefer to input notes with mouse/keyboard)
Software: Sibelius, Band in a Box 2020, Cool Edit Pro, Audacity
Software synth: Koolsoft Virtual MIDI synth (with a bunch of sound fonts)
Other hardware: A couple of SM57s, though I don't plan to record much


Please let me know if you need to know anything else and, once again, thanks very much!

you already have RealBand. lots of us like it and lots of others swear by other DAWs.

as for midi sounds, you have to decide whether the sound fonts you have are good enough or maybe some advice from other users can point you in the direction of soundfonts or instrument patches they think will suit you. yes you can spend a fortune on pro level sampled instruments but do you really need them? i mainly use RealTracks now but for midi i have the Edirol Hypercanvas (aka the Cakewalk TTS1) and in a mix i find the sounds fine for what I need

try RB and within it you can audition just about anything in the way of new sound fonts or instrument samples although you may need to use jbridge for 64 bit plug ins

so without spending any cash try RB first

Ah, thanks for that!

I was under the impression that RealBand was a more advanced way of working with RealTracks rather than a fully-fledged DAW in its own right, but I see I was mistaken!

I'd love to be able to get great sounds and samples for free. I have done lots of searching for soundfonts but the best I've found haven't come close to some of the paid-for sounds, particularly when it comes to wind instruments.

I'll give RealBand a go and see how I get on with it, but in the meantime I'd still definitely appreciate advice on sounds

(that's not to say I wouldn't also appreciate further advice on DAWs if anyone else wants to chip in)

Demo all of the DAWs and chose the one that best fits your workflow. I used to use Sonar but when they were in limbo I went to Studio One Pro and never looked back. Only you can decide what DAW is best for you.

You might download the free Kontakt Player and any other free or demo softsynths and/or samplers. Again only you can chose what best fits your songs and workflow. I mostly use Kontakt but also use UVI, Synthmaster, and others. There are a number of excellent softsynths that are free.

I like Kontakt, the full version, as there are many third parties issuing patches for it. There are a number for the free Kontakt Player also.

The bottom line is that you have to try all that you can and pick the best that fits for you. That may be Realband, Cakewalk, or any other DAW, many here use Reaper, and for sounds again that is up to you.

Good luck.

About choosing a DAW... there are so many to to choose from out there... it is a matter of personal choice and preferred workflow... Pro Tools is not the best choice in my opinion, there are many which is better: Reaper, Cubase, Ableton, FL Studio and others.

About "sounds": There are plenty of good and free options to start out with - here are a few to start you out:

Komplete Start will give you plenty of instruments and sounds to start out with:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-start/

LABS from Spitfire is also free and a very good sounding collection of instruments:

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/labs/


Will

Mike,

I would definitely start with Cakewalk. It is free and it is a fully fledged DAW.
Mario above said he never looked back... Well, I did. Studio one does not come close in certain areas of Cakewalk as far as workflow goes. I tried it at the same time Mario did, but switched back. Since Cakewalk was acquired, it was updated regularly. If you are coming from Cool Edit Pro, this would be an easy and free transition.

One of the things that I like about Cakewalk is that it is very "modular". You can discard many buttons/menus from view, leaving basic stuff for tracking and yet have other "scenes" with completely customized menus in the same project for deep editing.

And most importantly, it has a very strong, supportive community. Most questions, simple or tricky ones are usually answered within couple of hours.

For the sounds VST's:
If you need GM - Halion Sonic
If you do not need GM - Kontakt
Budget: Sample Tank. Sometimes it is sold ridiculously cheap.


Good luck.

Misha.

Hi Mike, I started out with Cool Edit Pro as well in the late '90s. Adobe bought them out in the early 2000s and today they are Adobe Audition. If you liked the functionality of Cool Edit Pro the current versions of Adobe Audition still work similarly. Of course the free DAWs others are suggesting are a good place to start.

I graduated from Adobe Audition over to Pro Tools as Audition didn't have much in the MIDI department. I did this about 5 years ago and really love Pro Tools. Different strokes for different folks as far as DAWs go. Try a couple of the free ones and you'll settle in with what works for you.

Good Luck!

Mike02392,

Interesting questions.

I think you'll find that for most people choosing a DAW is a very personal choice that essentially boils down to people tend to suggest the DAW they are most familiar with and most comfortable using. Your question stressed you are not terribly restrained by cost so I'll leave that consideration out of my comments. However I should point out that for many forum users cost is a strong restraint so the responses you receive will be influenced by cost.

The Windows DAWs I believe are most mentioned in this forum include +++ Reaper +++, +++ Cakewalk by Bandlab +++, +++ Cubase +++, +++ PreSonus Studio One +++, +++ ProTools +++ and +++ MultiTrack Studio +++.

For the sake of those that use a Mac, GarageBand is the entry level product while +++ Logic Pro +++ is the commercial DAW.

Wikipedia has some information and comparison charts worth looking at +++ HERE +++ and +++ HERE +++.

In any case the ones I mentioned are either free, have a free edition or a trial period. Visit the links I provided, read the wiki articles and narrow your choice down to two or three DAWs. Think about a few tasks you want to do such as import or export an audio file, cut copy and move audio, create a track from a loop, edit midi, and so on. Download the two or three DAWs that interest you the most and see what tasks you can easily do without using the manual. That's the one you want because it works the way you think.

Sound library. In my opinion there are multiple competing sound library formats but the one with the most support from third party vendors is Native Instrument's +++ Kontakt +++. When I was just starting to understand music production tools, one of the most confusing things for me to get my head around is that Kontakt can be used as a sound engine to playback musical instrument sounds, more commonly known as patches, from a sound library or as an instrument in it's own right. A great website that sells a wide variety of instruments and sound libraries is +++ Big Fish Audio +++

Thanks a lot, everybody!

I had half given up on trying them out when I had such difficulty setting up Pro Tools, but I tried again with Ableton Live and so far it's been working fine

I'm not sure, then, why Pro Tools is being such a pain, but anyway I'll try a bunch of the main ones out - including RealBand - and see which work for me. I've recently read that Cubase is used quite a lot by film composers, so I'm looking forward to trying that one in particular.

I'll most likely be back once I've given a bunch of them a try!

If tight, useful integration between your composing software and your DAW is important to your workflow, I would suggest taking a look at Studio One and Notion, both by PreSonus. There are a couple of excellent contributors on the PreSonus forum. Especially, check out the posts by Surf.Whammy. He posts a LOT of Notion/Studio One and Notion/Re-wire info.

Notion's instrument libraries are really pretty good as a starting point. There are a number of forum posts in the Notion subforum re various instrument libraries and their use in Notion.

A good way to get into Studio One is through the Artist version (plus the VST extension).

Forum: https://forums.presonus.com/

Notion: https://www.presonus.com/products/Notion

Studio One: https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-One
Versions: https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-One/compare-versions
VST/AU/Rewire Support for Artist: https://shop.presonus.com/VST-and-AU-and-Rewire-Support

Try Realband .. it's different than a lot of DAWS (more like BiaB in some ways if you get along there) and may fit your needs.
If not, (in my mind) Reaper is very affordable and very capable DAW with lots of support.

Sonar just wasn't for me, same with Protools.

But that's just my view, any of the suggested DAWs may 'click' with you personally.
If you try one that is problematic (like your experience with ProTools), just move on and try a different one. Don't spend a lot of time trying to solve problems you may never have in another DAW. The whole idea is that it fits YOUR workflow.

'Joe' may swear by DAW A and 'Jeff' swears by DAW B .. and they are both right, for themselves.
But for you, find the one that works and you are comfortable in. The whole idea is to make some music.
Once any DAW exports a stereo wav file it's a stereo wav file; doesn't matter what software made it.

<<< I would like a DAW which has an emphasis on ease of use and smoothness of workflow, though to be 100% honest I'm not entirely sure what that means. In an ideal world, I'd like to use MIDI files exported from Sibelius as my starting point, so if there are any particular DAWs suited to that then that would be good to know. >>>

The DAW contained in the physical hardware device of the Tascam DP-24 fills every requirement you've listed above and currently sells for $400 USD. There is nothing to 'set up' with the DAW. It just works right from the start. It's ease of use is superior. It doesn't come with thousands of plug ins, add-ons, buffer settings, drivers to install or latency issues. It has USB connectivity so all of the VST's, VSTi's, Band in a Box, Sibelius audio exports and and even Pro Tools First, if you ever get it working, can transfer audio files between the unit and your PC. It has physical knobs, buttons, dials and faders. It has 8 quality mic preamps and can record all 8 simultaneously. It has 24 active tracks and each track can have 8 alternate takes. The 8 mics are live in Mixdown mode allowing 32 tracks available for mixing.

It has native plug ins that don't require any set up, connections, or drivers and work simply by selecting them. You will not be overwhelmed by choices.

These units are very stable and durable. The firmware, DAW and software is self contained and matched to the CPU and memory of the unit, the unit can handle the load and memory stress without crashing the computer.

Purchase the Tascam approved training DVD from David Wills at ProAudioEXP and you will know, understand and be able to record, mix and master a complete song with effects in less than a day.

If your preference is to be a musician that would "like to start getting in to producing my own music i.e. creating music that is fit for putting on SoundCloud and the like." And, your preference is not to have to learn complex software designed for audio engineering, you will find the Tascam DP-24 is entirely capable to do that task and more and all the while fulfill the 'workflow' requirements you desire.

A final note. I have recommended the Tascam DP-24 specifically based on the limited information I have about your workflow and goals for recording you've given. There are other quality devices and other manufacturers. Just as with DAW's, there are differences between them all. The DP-24 may be more than you need but it will also clearly meet all your needs. At it's price point, all you likely will save is a little money. The way the DP-24 is designed to arm tracks for recording, having the mixer large enough to display and access all 24 channels, the genius layout of having a single common channel strip selectable by track and the similarity you will have to how older cassette players transport controls, this is the most straight forward multi track design in my opinion.

Really it boils down to how you record. If you start in Band in a Box, and move that track bed to a DAW then record vocals and a couple guitar tracks it doesn’t matter which DAW they all do that. The easiest to use with BiaB is Realband because it opens BiaB files if you just add to that it is fine and you own it. It will handle midi and mix just fine despite some here who beat it up.

If you want to experiment with a little bit better mixer setup where you can do sub groups and buss FX Cakewalk is a good choice due to it being free. I spent years with cakewalk from music creator version 1 thru 5 then sonar X1 then bandlab. I find like Mario that Studio One from Presonus has a more streamlined workflow and more productive comping features. Plus the pro version has really great Effects and instruments.

If you like a more old school approach like the days of tape type recording give Multitrackstudios a spin I used that for about three years and will say it was one of the most productive DAWs I ever used. Just the way it allows both midi and audio to be handled the same way it crazy simple

Yes RealBand, but if you have any issues with it crashing then use REAPER as it will import musicxml and has a great notation editor, it's also free to try n try n try and that's the full version.

I agree with this, too.

Realband is very useful. I use it as part of my songwriting and on my journey through to the production.

I do the production in Reaper because there are some very amazing video clips from beginner to advance level produced by Kenny Gioia... he's a first class educator.

http://www.kennymania.com/reaper-videos/

All the best with your journey,
Noel

Mike02392,

Was I right or was I right in my prediction? You've received a lot of DAW recommendations and, you know what? They are all excellent. In today's world I don't think you can find a bad DAW, just some that you like less than whichever one you eventually select. Notice though the dearth of sound library suggestions.

Let me remind you that if you have the Ultra PAK, Audiophile or Omni PAK of 2020 Band-in-s-Box for Windows you already have more than 3,100 hours of professionally recorded audio material in more than 2,900 RealTracks plus more than 1,000 audio loops. That is as impressive a sound library as you'll find anywhere.

I mentioned Kontakt in my first post. Another platform worthy of consideration is the +++ UVI Workstation +++

Yes, we do.

I like your Kawai ES110, very nice.

Since you're using Cool Edit that implies you have an older 32 bit PC? That may not cut it for what you're trying to do so tell us the exact specs of your PC. Make, model number, CPU, type and size of the hard drive, RAM. You need to be running Win 10 64 bit with an SSD system drive and a minimum 8 gigs of Ram. But CE Pro won't run on that and the old free Adobe Audition won't either. The new Audition is not free, it's now a monthly subscription model and is pretty expensive. It's pretty good I'm told but still...

To your primary question about DAW's.

As a noob at this don't even THINK about messing around with other DAW's until you completely understand Real Band. It has all the basic functions of all of the DAW's already mentioned plus the myriad others not yet mentioned. RB will teach you what a DAW is, how it works, what it can do for you. It has midi editing, audio editing, notation, and it handles all the same VST plugins any other DAW does. So please, please don't even start with anything until you're familiar with RB. You may well discover it's all you need.

That's the whole reason it's included with Biab, no need to buy anything else at least until you know what you really want. Here's the thing about DAW's:

They all have the same basic functions but when you look at each function you'll find differences. Take audio editing for example. RB has audio editing and it works fine. Part of audio editing includes time stretching, pitch shifting and the like. They all do it, the question is HOW they do it. It's all about the workflow, what do you like best? Right now you have no clue about that so why bother confusing yourself but believe me you WILL be confused. Learn how it works in RB first, then you'll have an idea of the concept. Then, you'll be in a position to demo another DAW and see how time stretching/pitch shifting works in that DAW compared to RB. Same with all the other DAW functions.

How to set up plugin's. How to arm/record tracks. How to use effects. How does it's mixer work? Much, much more. Real Band does all that and so does any other DAW but they all do it somewhat differently from each other.

You want to write, record and manipulate your songs. Great. ANY DAW will do that including RB. Learn it first. Please. It will save you so much confusion and grief to start.

Realize I HAVEN'T EVEN MENTIONED THE PRIME REASON FOR RB'S EXISTENCE.

And that is to not simply be another DAW, it's to be a DAW that integrates Biab functions. I'm not even getting into that right now, this post is long enough. But believe me that combination is killer.

You should jump over to the Real Band forum right now, along with watching the RB vids.

Bob

As a followup, don't ignore what Charlie posted about the Tascam recorder.

His suggestion is a perfectly valid alternative. Computers, DAW's, Plugins, sound libraries and interfaces are complicated and expensive. Since you have a nice Kawai digital piano I assume you know how to play it.

To clarify what he's talking about, you can still write out parts in Sibelious, send the midi to a host inside your computer and that host can have virtual instruments. That host does not have to be a DAW. It's just a host. The software doesn't have to simply play parts you wrote out, you can also play strings, piano, other keyboards whatever on your Kawai too using the virtual instruments in the host. The audio out goes to the Tascam. The Tascam replaces what could be an expensive DAW or even Real Band.

A physical recorder can be very satisfying. I have an old Akai DPS 12. I love it for live remote recording but it's so old it does not directly interface with my PC. You're not stuck looking at a computer screen you have a nice piece of gear sitting right in front of you plus newer ones can integrate with your computer. If you sing, you simply plug the mic into that and not into an interface which routes the signal through your're PC and into a DAW which yes, can get complicated while the physical recorder is brain dead simple. It's sitting right there, no computer, nothing else needed.

For now learn RB like I wrote above but consider something like the Tascam as well.

Bob

Bob, slight correction; I have both Adobe Audition V1.5 (basically the same as Cool Edit Pro) and Adobe Audition V3.0 and they both run perfectly fine on my Win 10 64 bit PC.

My main DAW has been Reaper for the last few years, but I still use Adobe Audition for editing audio files, it’s the best program I have ever found for doing that.

Right, that's what I said. I don't think he has a 64 bit PC because he's running Cool Edit, not Audition. CE is only 32 bit.

I used to run Audition years ago but that was a free version and it was also 32 bit. Is V1.5 both free and 64 bit? If so I would love to get a copy of it because I agree, Audition is the best audio editor I've seen.

Bob