Originally Posted By: Funkifized
<...snip...> However, I am quite interested in how one makes MIDI tracks sound realistically like real instruments. Clearly you have a good sense of envelopes, dynamics, what to do with note-off commands, etc., for different instrument sounds.

It's easy. I record them live, in real time using the appropriate MIDI controller then I use a good MIDI sound source to play them back.

I do this when I make my Norton Music aftermarket styles. Everything gets recorded live, in real time, using the appropriate MIDI controller.

You have to record "Real Tracks" in real time so there is no difference there.

Of course with MIDI you can step-enter a part in a style but I never do that, it doesn't sound musical to me.

I use a lot of my own MIDI styles for that reason. I played all the parts into a MIDI sequencer in real time and then imported them into BiaB.

There are plenty of PG Music MIDI styles that are also well done (I wish had written some of them myself). I use these quite a lot as well.

I never use BiaB to play a melody or solo. Why? Playing solos or the melody is the most fun part for me, so why should I let the machine have all the fun?

At it's core Band-in-a-Box is the best auto-accompaniment program on the market. Auto-accompaniment is what BiaB started out as, new features have been added, expanding the capabilities of BiaB, but it still is primarily auto-accompaniment.

It's easier to change dynamics and other expressive devices on the comp parts than it would be if I tried to do that with the melody or solo.

One nice thing about playing melodies or solos into a sequencer in real time via MIDI is that if you hit a wrong note and keep going, you can fix the note without changing the expression of the part you played in.

On difficult parts, I'll practice them before recording until they are under my fingers. Occasionally even after practice I might flub a note or two, easy fix. I've learned to play with conviction and not be concerned about a wrong note or two.

Most of the time I get it right though, and sometimes I play too many wrong notes which means I just haven't practiced enough first - back to the woodshed.

I'm most particular when writing my styles. They get the most practice before recording and eventually inputting into the BiaB StyleMaker. It would really bother me to sell something with my name on it that I could have done better, so the extra time and work is a matter of pride.

Originally Posted By: Funkifized
So you export the MIDI file as generated by BIAB, and use your algorithms to make the MIDI notes perform like a real player. What now, though? The only place you can import these edited MIDI files back into BIAB is the Melody track or the Soloist track, correct?


I do preliminary work in Band-in-a-Box, export to a DAW, finish the work there, and never import back into BiaB. Why? Although I am a huge fan of BiaB and think it is a genius app, it has its limitations. There are things I can do in my DAW or MIDI Sequencer that won't go back into BiaB. One example would be ritardando and accelerando. BiaB can't do these subtle or sometimes gross expressive devices on a gradual basis (there are plenty of other examples).

Originally Posted By: Funkifized
Again, if you edit out the third of the chord in a MIDI editor, how do you import the MIDI file back into guitar part of the generated BIAB part?


I generate the parts first in BiaB, then export the very good BiaB music to a DAW and turn that very good output into something better.

I suppose you could do the same in RealBand, but I prefer single dedicated apps to multi-purpose ones. Not that either is better or worse, just personal preference.

Originally Posted By: Funkifized
I've done with in sequencing bands before, and even done some sequencing. Usually the way to make the sequences sound more like real players had to do more with pushing the notes a little ahead or behind the best to make the phrasing more human, applying staccatos in creative places, alternating note ending times so that horn sections sounded more like separate players, etc. I almost had to spend as much time adding sloppiness to the parts than the time spent getting the right notes in.


Exactly!!!

Besides for pushing and delaying some beats to create a groove, there are also subtle things you can do like put the bass a couple of ticks in front of the kick drum to bring out the notes or a couple of ticks behind to bring out the thud of the kick drum. Move the crash cymbal a bit ahead for some aggression and so on.

BiaB styles are by their nature rather generic. They have to be. When I was new at writing styles, a customer asked for an Elvis Presley "Don't Be Cruel" style, so I wrote one. Trying to play that sequence, with it's signature guitar figure on another song just 'shouts' "Don't Be Cruel"

After exporting my BiaB song as a MIDI file, I can add any song-specific licks I want, change instrument sounds (that Rhodes might sound better as a Grand piano), move drum rolls around, change cowbells to ride cymbals (or omit them), add rit or accel and other tempo changes, change the inversion of some chords, add rhythmic kicks that the generic BiaB shot won't do, add an extended intro or ending, get rid of 3rds in "power chord" intervals, and a zillion other things that cannot be done with audio tracks.

Originally Posted By: Funkifized

However, when I hear sounds like Indiginus Blue Steel horn sounds, where they have effects to applied to the notes specifically to reproduce the sounds that a player may make, I wonder how those note could be edited and then imported back into BIAB. I'm not a keyboard player, but I'm not sure why I couldn't generate the MIDI notes from Finale, and then edit them with agorithms particular to horn parts, or guitar parts, etc.? However, again, can I then import them back into BIAB, or is there some way to do this editing right in BIAB and the freeze the track from regenerating?


IMO The best way to input horn parts is with a Wind MIDI controller. It takes a better keyboard player than I to get the subtle dynamics a horn player does naturally with breath. If they are just horn stabs or background sustain chords with little dynamics, I'll use the keyboard.

Same for drum parts. I use a drum controller.

I do this when I make my styles as well. Drum parts with a drum controller, wind instrument parts with a wind MIDI controller, keyboard parts with a keyboard MIDI controller, and so on.

There is more than one tool in my toolbox. Different music apps and different MIDI controllers. I try to use the most appropriate tool for the job.

In the years I've been doing this, I get better at it (practice eventually makes perfect).

And since it's music, it's all play.

If I wanted to listen to someone else's music I'd put on a CD or stream something. When playing with the music, the time passes too quickly as it does when I'm having fun.

Notes

Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
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