PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums RealBand RealBand very unstable following Win10 update.

RB2019 and 2021 both run as Admin, both deleted and re-installed.
Intel Core i7-6500u up to 3.1GHz, 12GB RAM

RB is known to be a bit unstable, but lately, for me, it has reached ridiculous levels, freezing or closing suddenly several times during a session. Only very rarely can I complete a session without interruption.
I don't think this is 2021 related since I mainly use 2019 for 32bit, and nobody else has reported anything like this.
I've narrowed it down to beginning to occur after a Win10 update in early December and reckon, in the absence of any other reports, that the problem is with my laptop.
Any advice or suggestions will be gratefully received.

Vintage

Check to be sure Win 10 update has not reduced the power setting of your laptop CPU. It took mine from high power setting to a balanced setting and that slowed everything down.

Might help to check.

Jeff

Thanks for the reply, we're getting into areas that are outside my pay grade.

Found the Power Advanced Settings at Balanced as you suggested, but can see no options for changing to High or any others.

Vintage

i know laptops are different but i don't think you want to edit the balanced setting which i think is what your screenshot shows. i think you want to change to another power setting.

open control panel or windows settings. in control panel choose 'power options'
select another setting - high power or something. if you can only see 'balanced' click 'show additional plans'

if you are using settings (the gear wheel when you click the windows logo) choose 'power and sleep' click 'additional power settings' and you'll see a choice of power plans. if you need to, click 'additional power settings' to show a choice

unless of course from your screenshot you can use the arrow showing next to 'balanced' to choose another setting rather than edit 'balanced'

Bob, thanks for the reply.
Your description is the path I followed to the above screenshot.
The shot was taken after I clicked the arrow and indicates that no other choices are available except balanced.
I must be missing a setting somewhere.

Vintage

sorry for going over old ground - usually there is a choice to create a new power plan or a choice. what laptop is it? maybe a google search for the laptop and 'creating new power option' might help. sorry to be useless!

I've checked out a number of avenues and can't find any other options, but as I said in the OP this is an area well outside my payscale!
When we can move about more, I'll take to my local tech guy.
Thanks for the help.

Vintage

vintage.
i'll try and help BUT only if your patient.
i will tell you if ive tried all options/failed.
1. since i took my studio pc off the net a few years back (win 10 refurb) ive not had one problem. ZILCH !
i now use a seperate refurb cheapie for the net only .
THUS RUN A TEST AND SEE IF THINGS IMPROVE KEEPING STUDIO PC OFF THE NET.
NOTE>>I DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS.
I AGREE WITH PEOPLE ON OTHER RECORDING FORUMS WHO KEEP THEIR STUDIO PC's OFF THE NET.
SO PLEASE DONT BASH ME !
2. WHAT IS YOUR SOUND DEVICE VINTAGE ? please dont say on board sound.
focusrite ? behringer ? motu ?
3. in RB please go to action>>test audio performance and run test.
does it give a high number like me (190 traks ?). with an i7 it should be a big number.
4. do you have ssd installed ? ssd is best. rather than an old clunky drive with latency.
5. in RB preferences for audio what drivers and alternatives are listed ?
6. please run resplendence latency monitor and tell me what results you get.
7. open up reaper , and in the TOP RIGHT HAND SIDE UNDER THE "X" tell me what reaper stats are reported please.
the above will help me help you.

get back to me. just trying to help.
thanks.
muso.

muso,

Thanks for the response. Wasn't able to read it until late yesterday,
so thought it better to wait until this morning before replying,
so here goes.

1 Ran a quick test with internet disconnected, RB still freezes.
I need to point out that the term "studio" is a bit grand for my BIAB/RB
usage.
I make backing tracks for live performance as Solo or Duo with us playing
acoustic instruments. I also make demo tracks for practise purposes for
when I play with a 4 piece.
The demos usually have additional parts that I record on a Tascam and
import into RB.
This is done on a general purpose ASUS laptop.

2 Sound Device, sorry to disappoint, but for my usage I don't need one
other than on board RealTech
To provide a continuity of sound between songs, my backing tracks are a
mixture of MIDI and RealTracks. Bass and Drums always MIDI for ease of
editing and making them less "busy" than RTs. I have been using this
format for some time and know what parameters work in RealBand to achieve
a reasonable mix in my PA. Midi is Forte DXi which requires the use of
32bit RealBand since I would prefer not to have to rebalance approx. 200
Backing tracks to a different synth.

3 Test Audio Performance; RB2019 32bit = 107 tracks,
RB2021 64bit = 267 tracks.

5 RB Preferences; See screenshot.

4 No SSD.

6 Latency Mon; See screenshots.
The first row jumps a lot between 2 digit and 3 digit numbers

7 Reaper; [44.1KHz 24bit WAV: 2/2ch 1024spls~43/178ms WaveOut]

Hope this is correct and helpful.

Best regards
Vintage

vintage.
thanks for the info.
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED.
(you cant build a good house without a decent foundation.
thus i wanted to see your system foundations.)
i suspected as such. and please believe i'm only trying to help you get things shipshape.
(ps if you doubt what i'm saying, ask a pc tech,
BUT ONE THAT UNDERSTANDS THE UNIQUE NEEDS OF STUDIOS.
cos some techs dont.)
but i have to be truthfull.
oh boy, where do i start.

overview.
the problem , in all of this is, marketing people have led many musicians to believe they can use any old system to make music with. were it that simple.
then the techs are left to clean things up. seen it time and again.

whereas the day to day "reality" is a system has to be properly set up for even most basic studio duties.
(if you doubt me , peruse threads on gearslutz.com where users have a basic set up like yourself, all the way up to big megabuk recording rigs/studios. also i would suggest you google "custom builder of recording studio PC's " lots of interesting info. Gslutz has links. also read on google bout optimising a pc for studio work. )

i DO GET your workflow.
I assume your not doing any actual audio recording (eg vocs done on tascam).?
just generating midi and RT's ?

the reaper numbers say it all. big latency with on board sound.

by contrast on my studio pc is just 4 millisecs. and i could get it lower.
the only thing i can think of if you insist on useing on board sound is try "asio 4 all driver ."
have you done that ?

also if were me, i would do the following.
take the pc to a good refurb pc tech, and have the system cleaned up.
i suspect prolly lots of gunk built up due to net use. then keep it off the net.
and have him install an ssd.
but STILL the prob would remain. its a one drive system.
i normally advise people to use a system with 2 ssd's. one for win, and one for studio duties.
your asus prolly wont take 2 drives probably ?.
the prob with one drive systems , and ive seen it time
and again, win can interrupt studio apps. cos both useing one drive.

one option you might try is some music gear retailers will rent a usb audio interface for a month.
this way, you could test if a pro audio interface with asio will improve things.
sometimes you can find used ones for 40 buks or so. and so use asio drivers which will reduce that latency to a few millisecs.

the only other option i would suggest, is. keep the asus for the "net".
and get a properly configged studio pc that stays off the net with 2 ssd's, lots of ram, i7 .
refurbs with one year warranties can be had for as low as couple of hundred buks.
this is what i do. one pc for the net , and one for studio work. but STILL you might get a RB prob. depends on set up.
maybe there is a "bug" in RB. i didnt code it so dont know.

note. due to my vision probs i had great difficulty seeing the RB graphics.
the resplendence ones, not so much.
also note. your i7 on cpubenchmark.net has a rateing of 3200.
whereas a current i5 8400 is around 11000.
(note the higher the better for studio work. my i5 refurb is 5200.)

i suspect that RB plus a decent pro sound device might give you fewer issues. but youll have to run tests.
if were me i would start a new post and ask pg users useing RB , "what usb audio device are you useing with RB , whereby you get no problems with RB."

i use mainly biab plus reaper. and RB only occasionally.
i only wish you the very best.

hnyear.
muso.

muso,

Thanks for the extensive analysis, I think before I waste anymore time on this, your suggestion re the tech guy is my best option. I was due to see him March/April last year but things hit the fan and it never happened. Meanwhile I'll look more into reaper as a replacement for RB.
The thing that has kept me with RB is that I prefer the way I can edit MIDI with it.

Thanks again
Vintage

vintage.
yes rb is very good at midi.
ive used it many times over the years for such.
(also audio, many many times.)

re rb. what you might do also is talk to pg user rharv.
as far as i'm concerned rharv is the " pg guru" on rb/powertraks.
if he has the same win os version/update as you and has no probs; this aspect might be worth exploring.

irrespective of any daw you use i still suggest a good asio low latency sound interface.
and a properly set up (off the net) pc with 2 ssd drives.
lots of ram etc.
it still amazes me that yonks ago, it was a given that one kept ones studio pc off the net, yet , in this era its
different.

forte dxi should load in reaper. so run a test.
in reaper prefs you need to add forte dxi.
then on a reaps midi trak select the forte dx plug in.

i dont want to push reaps at you, but if you want to explore reaps more , go to reaper.fm , then clik on VIDEOS to see all its features, includeing midi etc. and see if its for you.

(also loads of vids on you tube. and also you tube has loads of vids on pc set ups/configs/how to's plus reviews of usb sound devices.)

best.
muso.

I've been watching the thread.
Unfortunately, I have a W10 up-to-date machine and am not experiencing these issues.

I've been working on a 28 track (so far) classical piece and running MIDI/Audio on various tracks, eventually recording all as audio.

I simply don't know what to suggest as I haven't seen this issue.
Did anything else get installed around that time that may be interrupting RB? new antivirus, system monitoring ..

Welcome aboard,

As far as I can recall the only change around the time I began to notice this was the Win10 update around 12 December.

Vintage

Rharv.
but your useing a proper pro audio usb interface. correct ?
what low latency asio usb interface do you use ?
what latency stats does reaps show underneath the X on your system ? just a few millisecs i'm sure ?
also in rb test audio performance , how many traks ? loads i bet ?
your useing ssd's ? processor i7 or i9 ? or beefy ryzen ?

one benefit of me keeping the studio pc off the net , is i can optimise the pc for studio use only. thus no ancilliary win or net apps that might interfere with the studio daw recording apps/tasks etc. my studio refurb i5 pc has never seen the net since i got it a few years back.
it just works for me day in/out.
hnyear and respect rharv.
muso.

Focusrite 18i20
Ryzen processor

Rharv.
oh wow ! you did it right.
asio + great interface + good system/cpu etc. = happiness.
thus proving a properly configured win pc can deliver the performance.
are you kidding ?
thats best trak count report ive ever seen so far from rb .
KUDOS. oh hell yeah ! lol.
ive been watching ryzen threadrippers. but outside my paygrade.

what latency does reaps report ? is this a desktop ?
fyi slate digital have an interface (outside my budget)
that claims less than 1 millisec latency.
best.
envious muso lol.

May be why I seem to have less problems than others <grin>
Yes it's a desktop, I think a big part of it is that I built the machine from the ground up (no bloatware).
Only pieces I reused were the PS and case.
Installed the clean W10 OS on new hardware and it just runs.

I haven't checked Reaper yet (and haven't configured it on this machine yet so it would be at defaults anyway).

It's not a top shelf Ryzen, just a Ryzen5 (12 thread & 6 core). <top image>

I seem to have good luck with AMD processors and motherboards. The MB being a ROG Strix probably helps (8450-F).
Reaper defaults are shown in bottom image, I can probably improve these specs when I have time.

Rharv.
goodness thats darn nice pc.
oh gosh, now ya got me rethinking my pc strategy. lol.
cos ive been looking heaviliy at refurb beasts like this, stuffed with ssd's,
cos ssd's are cheap now.
https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/hp-z440-workstation-xeon-e5-1620v3-3-5ghz-4-cores-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd-quadro-k2200-4gb-win10-pro-refurbished/14348023
(note the large no of usb slots.)

and the hp z workstations have a great rep. same with lenovos.
now i'm gonna have to re-evaluate.

fyi there are lots of interesting ryzen threads on gearslutz.com from very experienced tech people.
optimising/configs etc etc.
(eg music computers build pc at the top of forum, and ryzen 5000 big thread down lower.)
it could explain why i'm seeing some mac users going back to win.
and could explain apples new silicon strategy so they can plot their own future with their own processors.

frankly ive been fed up for a long time with the lack of progress on the market providing much more powerfull processors but at cheap prices. like watching paint dry.
whatever happened to moores law. lol.

(btw ive used rb for ages, and before that powertraks, back to the old pre-historic days. lol.)

so on that mainboard, does it take the slotted nvme or m.2 ssd tech ?

btw how long to win desktop from cold boot ?
(moi bout 9 secs.)


mucho respect
muso.
ps. i'm still testing , but loving new audient evo 4.
getting 4/5 secs latency in reaps, and i could get it lower.
but your focusrite is real nice too.