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audio pops in rendered wav tracks #650094 04/04/21 11:35 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	Hi all. I am using biab Windows 64 bit audiophile 2021, having previously used 2019 and 2020. I have only just started noticing audio pops on my rendered audio tracks. Mostly on drums and bass, but occasionally on guitars. Around 20 or so on each instrument track. When I open the wav file to look at it I see 'saw-tooth' wave peaks at the 'pop' sites. They mostly occur at bar breaks. I am having to manually edit all of my wav files to clean them up. Is this a normal artifact of rendering? Anyone else seeing this? Is there a way to eliminate it?

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650096 04/04/21 11:41 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,733 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,733	It happens to me occasionally, not systematically. What happens if you render same track twice? Would you get "pop" in same places? P.S. Maybe try a larger audio buffer on soundcard for rendering?

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650103 04/04/21 12:47 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	I usually run my Quantum 2626 tb3 interface at a buffer size of 512. I just re-rendered the drum track at the max size of 4096. Still getting pops. I don't recall having this problem on the 2019 and 2020 versions of audiophile, but I may have just missed them. It is now constant on every new song I create. I am also getting unnatural audio on guitar tracks that sounds like they have been over-worked by pitch-shifting software. Doesn't seem to matter what level of transposition I use and happens at the original tempo setting. Very frustrating. I am getting to the stage where I may have to stop using biab for song production.

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650107 04/04/21 02:03 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia	Hi Walznhabibi, I've been using BIAB's Audiophile version for many years and the only time I've had popping sounds is when BIAB tracks have been mixing then rendered in my DAW. It turned out that the popping was due to plugins and not BIAB. We need to know a little more about to be able to being trying to solve the problem... Please, can you step us through how you are rendering the audio? BIAB offers a number of ways. What happens to the audio after you render it? If the audio is taken to a DAW after rending, what is the software? At what point in the chain do you first hear the pop sound? Does the pop sound occur when Bar Settings are involved? Are you using any plugins on BIAB's tracks? Regards, Noel my latest song: I Will Always Be There MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650110 04/04/21 03:18 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	OK. I render the wav files in biab, not in the DAW. I render at the best quality and maximum buffer size. The wav files go to a folder designated for them. I import them from the folder into my song project in my DAW. My DAW is Cubase 11 (I always update to the latest version). The pops are audible immediately on playback. Always on a beat - usually a strong beat. I do have plugins on the rendered tracks in Cubase, but the pops exist whether the plugins are on or off. I am able to locate the source of the pops to 'saw-tooth' wave peaks in each of the wav files, sometimes as many as 20 or so in one instrument wav file. When I manually repair the 'saw-tooth' peak with an envelope, fade, or silence (depending on the location of the peak) it is no longer audible. I have noticed a reduction in audio quality from biab 2020 to the 2021 version. I produced 60 songs on the 2020 version without an issue. I have had issues with every song I have worked on with the 2021 version. Gremlins somewhere that I can't locate. I would like to post a pic of the 'saw-tooth' wave peaks, but I can't work out how to do it. Last edited by Walznhabibi; 04/04/21 03:19 PM.

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650112 04/04/21 03:25 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	Here is a pic of the 'saw-tooth' wave peaks I get. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Sawtooth wave peak.jpg (3.47 KB, 197 downloads)

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650113 04/04/21 03:51 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	Have you been “slicing” the audio the knitting it together? If so you need to ensure you slice and dice at a “zero” crossing point. i.e. expand the area and make the cut at a point where the wave crosses the line. You also really need to check you are not slicing on waves going in the same direction, It is also best to use a crossfade at the point of reconnection. Most good DAWs almost do this semi automatically but in some you really have to find the point of zero crossing. Just a thought Tony Last edited by Teunis; 04/04/21 03:55 PM. HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650116 04/04/21 04:58 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia	Hi, Thanks for all the extra information. It helps. I can why you'd get a pop with that wave form. There's a definite jump from one wave to a whole new one. I can see that this could happen at bars when a chords a diced and sliced to create a playback track. In relation to audio quality... Under "Options \| Preferencs \| Realtracks" make sure that you have "Tempo/Pitch Stretching" set to High. The default is Medium. About the popping... Is this happening with all Realtracks and Realdrums of just some? It could be an issue with new RTs. Also, when you say that "I render at the best quality", what do you mean by this and how do you set it? I'm sorry if these questions are frustrating, but I'm trying to get a clear picture in my mind as to what's happening. Attempting to do that using just text conversation is quite a challenge! Regards, Noel MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Teunis #650215 04/05/21 02:13 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	This happens to the wav files in the biiab rendering process. I don't slice and knit anything.

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Noel96 #650217 04/05/21 02:17 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	In biab I go to: Preferences > Audio > Audio Drivers > Resampler quality > Best.

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650220 04/05/21 02:26 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,214 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,214 Hamlin NY	Is there anything running in the background? If so maybe that is interrupting your rendering? I turn off all of my anti stuff (anti-virus, anti-malware, etc) and via device manager turn off my Ethernet card. I have has issues in the past when those were on. I have not had that issue with rendering, but most of my work is in MIDI. Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Noel96 #650221 04/05/21 02:28 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	I set "Options \| Preferencs \| Realtracks \| Tempo/Pitch stretching" to High. Problem still persists. I plugged the biab SSD into a different usb input. Problem still persists. I rendered the wav files in biab using a different driver. Problem still persists. It is looking more and more like a problem with the rendering process in the 2021 biab app. Last edited by Walznhabibi; 04/05/21 03:15 PM.

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650224 04/05/21 03:28 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,465 J justanoldmuso Veteran
justanoldmuso Veteran J Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,465	walz. process of elimination. heres what i would like you to do. 1. open up a 2020 biab and a 2020 cubase song project. write down your sampling rate and bit depth preferences for biab settings AND cubase settings AND quantum settings. Now 2. open up a 2021 biab and 2021 cubase song project , and once again write down your sampling rate and bit depth settings as above for biab/cubase/quantum. DO YOU NOTICE ANY DIFFERENCES FROM 2020 song project to 2021 ? post back your 2020 and 2021 settings. heres also an idea. does the audio exported from biab play ok without artifacts in win media player ? ie BEFORE IMPORTING INTO CUBASE ? if its not a bug in biab 2021 , then it might be a discrepency in settings. best old-technerd-muso Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/05/21 03:30 PM. my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650233 04/05/21 04:54 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia	Originally Posted By: Walznhabibi In biab I go to: Preferences > Audio > Audio Drivers > Resampler quality > Best. Thanks. This helps. For what it's worth, I find myself wondering is this is where the problem might be occurring. I don't have the options for "Resampler quality > Best". This leads me to wonder if it might be specific to your soundcard. My understand of Resampling is that it is used to convert the specifications of a sound (or graphic) from one form to another. I see this setting as asking BIAB to covert the sound to match your soundcard's settings. What are the settings on your soundcard? BIAB's WAV files are 16 bit and 44.1 kHz (44,100 Hz). I always render my waves to this. When I transfer the wav files to my DAW (Reaper), Reaper then automatically resamples them so that the playback is 16 bit 48 kHz. I have never had a problem with this. When you render a BIAB track, what are the rendered track's specifications? (For comparison, when I look at the "Source Properties" of a BIAB track in Reaper, I get 16 bit 44100 Hz.) Lastly, there's a setting under "Audio > Audio drivers" called "Display warnings for detected audio stuttering". I suggest activating that and seeing what happens. Regards, Noel my latest song: I Will Always Be There MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650237 04/05/21 05:26 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	I just checked and I can hear the pops in the drum track as I play it in biab before it is rendered and exported as a wav file. It happened at a buffer size of 512 and the maximum buffer of 4096. I think that excludes anything to do with Cubase. And because it occurred when I exported it previously using two different drivers (Quantum ASIO and Windows MME) I think that excludes the Presonus audio interface. So... next I will hook up my 2020 biab SSD and see what happens.

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650241 04/05/21 06:05 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia	I run Windows 7 and my settings are shown on the image below. As you can see from #4, my soundcard is set at 16 bit and 480000 Hz. Because Windows audio is 16/44100, BIAB sounds need to be resampled and upscaled to become 16/48000. This could potentially create problems if it's not handled well. The 16/48000 soundcard settings are constant whether I use MME, ASIO, WAS drivers. They're properties of the soundcard. The drivers provide the pathway for the audio to get to the soundcard. By activating the option "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device", I just let BIAB make the decisions about what to do. See if you can find this option in your soundcard settings. I can access Windows soundcard settings by... (a) right-clicking on Windows speaker icon (b) "Audio > Recording mixer" in BIAB Hope this helps, Noel Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) windows playback settings windows 7 small.jpg (51.25 KB, 145 downloads) MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Noel96 #650372 04/06/21 12:06 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	I use Windows 10, so my soundcard options are a bit different. I can't find a way to alter the sample rate and bit depth. It is set at 24/44100 (studio quality). I assume it has always been this way even when I used previous versions of biab. The 'allow apps to take exclusive control of this device' option is checked. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) soundcard.jpg (72.9 KB, 117 downloads)

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650382 04/06/21 01:07 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	I just disconnected my 2021 biab audiophile SSD and re-connected my 2020 biab SSD. I played the identical real drum track in both versions of biab. The 2020 version was clean. The 2021 version had pops. I rendered and exported the real drum track in both versions of biab and imported them both into the same Cubase project. The 2020 version was clean. The 2021 version had pops - with 'saw-tooth' wave peaks at all the pop sites. I am now pretty sure this is a problem with the 2021 version of biab audiophile. Whether it exists only on the SSD version or in other versions I don't know. FYI the biab style was _CLSFUNK.STY. I will ask the PG Music boffins to look at it.

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Walznhabibi #650404 04/06/21 03:15 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	Walznhabibi, The settings you're displaying are for a PreSonus Quantum 2626. The capability to change bit depth and sample rate settings depend on the capabilities of the hardware device and its driver. According to the +++ technical specifications +++ the bit depth is locked at 24 bit depth but the sample rate can be set to 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192 kHz. You may want to make sure you are using the most up-to-date PreSonus Quantum 2626 ASIO driver when recording in Band-in-a-Box, RealBand or a DAW. For audio playback in Band-in-a-Box you may be better off using MME or WAS. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: audio pops in rendered wav tracks Jim Fogle #650407 04/06/21 03:22 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia Walznhabibi OP Enthusiast
OP Walznhabibi Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2020 Posts: 22 NSW, Australia	Yep. Doing all that. I update everything as soon as updates are available. As I stated earlier, it does not matter which driver I use (ASIO, WAS or MME) or what buffer size I use, the 'pops' and 'saw-tooth' wave peaks occur - but only in the 2021 audiophile version of biab. The same audio is fine in the 2020 version. I have handed this problem over to PG Music to deal with. Hopefully they will have a resolution. They gave me pre-release version of an update to test and it did not solve the problem. Latest advice from support people is that they think it is a bug and have reported it to the development team. Last edited by Walznhabibi; 04/07/21 01:41 PM.

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