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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Hi dcuny, I've just been reading through your comments to Josie and felt that, in the interests of balance, I should provide a different argument to a couple of your thoughts. I don't know why but I get the feeling that you enjoy a friendly debate  That's why I have written the below. I don't usually enter into differences of opinion on forums but I applaud good, healthy debate! So I'm going to take a risk. I hope that I'm right in that you too like debates. If I am wrong, what I've written below might sound antagonistic or arrogant. If that is the case, please keep in mind that I did not write it with any intention of being either  Quote:
I'm not a huge fan of songs with too many rhymes - the kill the "naturalness" of the language. And you've got a chorus filled with -ide rhymes in the chorus. Of course, that's a personal preference. I don't think many here agree with me.
To my mind, rhymes are the single most important tool that a lyricist has to enhance the meaning of words through the development of lyric movement and this, in turn, adds an extra dimension to a lyric's emotional delivery. I like Josie's AAABB rhyme scheme (three perfect rhymes followed by a near-rhyme couplet). To my ears, it does its job of enhancing lyric content really well.
Let me explain what I mean.
The human mind likes balance and at the end of the first two lines, the rhymes are paired and this causes a feeling of completion (semi-completion is a better term because other factors, that I'll mention a little later, are also in play). A point of rhyme-balance is created. Josie then sets us up with her lyrics to repeat the process but this time she surprises us. Instead of rhyming the 3rd line with the 4th line, Josie introduces a line that doesn't rhyme. This draws attention to the line and causes the listener to re-focus (just in case s/he's feeling comfortable with predictability). In essence, the 4th non-rhyming line creates instability and this adds emotional momentum to the lyric. It keeps the lyric moving and keeps the listener's attention by using the unexpected. The problem, though, is that the verse needs to feel complete for it to end. At the moment, at the end of the 4th phrase, the verse cannot end with a sense of fulfillment. Completion requires rhyme. Josie solves this by adding another "B" line. The really clever part, though, is that the added rhyme is not a perfect rhyme. The assonance rhyme of frayed/grace is a skilled lyrical move. Near rhyme gives a sense of completion but not an absolute, "locked-in" sense of fulfillment. It still leaves the listener hanging a little. To my mind, this assonance rhyme enhances the emotional content delivered by the "surprise" created by not rhyming lines 3 and 4. Josie delivers all this in a 5-phrase stanza. Using an odd number of phrases also adds to the unbalanced nature of the verse. For me, the lyric content serves the format of the lyric structure very well. In this sense, I see it as excellent prosody. Also, using "provide" as an intransitive verb in its future tense is, to my ears, a masterstroke; yet another little kick of instability is given to listeners and it does its bit to enhance lyric content even further. For me, this lyric radiated with emotion because of the way it moves. (I always read lyrics aloud so that I can feel their impact on my senses.) I believe that any change to Josie's lyric structure would weaken it significantly.
Josie then sets out on the journey again in verse two and skillfully delivers another emotional roller-coaster ride: complete with "come" being used intransitively in the parallel 3rd phrase! By the end of the song, I feel satisfied that my journey through the song has been worthwhile.
As a contrast, had the verse been AAABBB in structure, it would have felt balanced and, for me, this would have weakened the reflective, emotional nature of the lyrics significantly. By the end of the current first verse, I hear and feel lyrics that have delivered the thinking of a person who is questioning their beliefs and even their existence. To my way of thinking, Josie's work is incredibly well woven and is, in many ways, showcase lyric writing. Moreover, it delivered me into the chorus for a big payoff. I couldn't help but notice that the chorus is a nicely balanced four sturdy lines of AAAA rhyme. This is a very stable, very solid rhyme scheme and is a perfect fit for the resolve that the singer anticipates. This difference between lyric instability in the verses and lyric stability in the chorus gave me a good feeling of contrast.
Josie's use of lyric meter also keeps us on the edge of our seats. Phrase 1 sets the pace and has a good, comfortable 4 feet to it (just like "Mary had a little lamb"). Phrase 2, though, only has 3 feet (like the second line of "Mary had a little lamb") and this keeps the lyric pushing forward into the next phrase. This second phrase, though, rhymes with phrase 1. Because it rhymes a little short of the mark, it is unbalanced and this is yet another tool for enhancing emotion. Phrase 3 is also 3 feet. A feeling of acceleration now sets in (remember the pace was set by the first phrase of 4 feet and we've now had 2 phrases of 3 feet). This feeling of increasing lyric speed is enhanced by rhyming phrase 3 with phrase 2. What a great place to set a lyric that requires a feeling of intensity and anguish! I think "Life can be unkind" is a great fit. Because of the setting, and the phrases before it, I heard this line as "things happen that I have no control over". The last two phrases now begin the process of lyric deceleration and focus attention on what is being said. They also set us up to feel an increased pace in the chorus.
Ok. Time for me to get off that soap box now! (Please keep in mind that these are just my thoughts.)
Some people write music because if feels and sounds right and some people write lyrics in exactly the same way. I, on the other hand, enjoy analyzing what makes good material work (both musically and lyrically). The internet is terrific for looking up songs and lyrics. I then take the lessons I've learned on-board and try to apply them in my own way to my music: sometimes I'm successful, sometimes I'm not. I follow the Pat Pattision school of lyric writing. In case you haven't heard his name before, Pat is Professor of Lyric Writing and Poetry at Berklee College of Music. Many regard him as one of the world's leading authorities on lyric writing. I hold him in high esteem and have been to a number of his weekend workshops. (That being said, though, I realize that I still have a long, long way to go when I look at some of the amazing lyrics that people have written over the years.) Pat's three books are my most valuable songwriting tools. They are starting to become tattered and torn from having been read and flicked through a million times.
Lastly, I must say that I wholeheartedly commend you on your comments. Your posts glow with professionalism. I found those comments that you made about my song ("How Do You Do It") a very valuable resource. The fact that you are prepared to take so much time to present your thoughts so clearly to those of us who are seeking critiques of our work is a tremendous asset to these forums. I can't speak for Josie, but I, personally, value all your input. Please do not stop
Best regards, Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 11/05/10 07:03 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
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You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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