Hello ... I am relatively new to BIAB, having purchased it about a month ago. So far I have found the software relatively intuitive for what I have been using it for, which is primarily to create backing tracks. I have knocked out quite a few backing tracks already and am having fun with the software. I realize I am barely scratching the surface of what the software can do. It does seem a little intimidating with regards to the GUI.
I am having an issue charting one small passing section in a tune called Labelled with Love (Squeeze), which is a somewhat straightforward country-ish tune in 4/4, key of E, at 90bpm. I am charting it in D since the vocal is pretty high. Throughout the song, there is a little passage that is a quick 3 beat turn-around, and I cannot seem to get it to sound quite right. I assume I am missing something, but I have tried a number of ways of charting it, but it just doesn't sound right. My thought is that this is not very uncommon, so it must be possible. As a reference, the passage is here at 41 secs in: https://youtu.be/j3R7Op1oufA ... and also repeats a number of times throughout the song whenever he sings the title "labelled with love' and is one chord (or note) per word. My thought is that because it is 3 beats and resolves back on the D in this manner: G > F#m, Em .... D, that bar is not in 4/4, but instead only has 3 beats, so I tried changing that one bar to 3/4, but the timing still doesn't sound correct and/or I cannot get the G > F#m > Em to match the vocal line in the same timing. I also tried changing the tempo for just that bar in an attempt to match the timing of the vocal, but in playing around with various tempos for that bar, I cannot seem to get this to sound right, so I figured it was time to post my first question. What it sounds like to me is that the tempo of the song overall is 90 bpm, but that one bar is perhaps double-time, so I attempted that, but again, it did not sound right. I imagine I am missing something obvious, but alas, I cannot figure it out. I will be happy to share my song (SGU) file, if needed.
Thanks in advance for any assistance anyone may be able to provide.
Peter
BIAB for Windows Version 2020 (713) Windows 7 64-bit DAW: Reaper
What's happening in that bar is a set of 1/2-note triplets. That is, three 1/2-notes are played in the same time that it normally takes two 1/2-notes to play. In other words, 3 x 1/2-notes are played in the time of a single 4/4 bar.
Your approach to the solution is correct. To get the chords to sound correct, it's necessary to create a bar with 3 beats and it's necessary to change the timing so that the bar plays those 3 beats in the same time that it takes 4 x 1/4-note to play the song's main tempo. The chords then need to be added to each of those beats.
To accomplish this....
Firstly.... some calculations are needed because the tempo needs to be slowed down for that bar so that three notes play in the same time as four notes.
To do this, set the tempo of the first bar to 3/4 the tempo of the original song's tempo. This slows that bar's tempo down so that 3 beats will play in the same time as the rest of the song's 4 beats.
Here's how I would do the above...
I'm going to use a tempo of 96 (which seems to be around the bpm of the Youtube clip). I'm applying the below procedure to bar 18 (it will be a different bar for you).
1. select bar 18
2. enter into Bar Settings (press F5)
3. Change "# beats this bar" to '3'
4. Calculate the tempo of this bar = 3/4 of 96 --- that is 0.75x96 which is 72
5. still in bar settings, set the "Tempo change to" to '72'
Now the following bar needs to be returned to the song's main format. To do this...
6. click on bar 19
7. enter into Bar Settings
8. change "# beats this bar" to '4' and set the "Tempo change to" to 96
Lastly, chords need to be entered into bar 18. The first half of bar 18 requires two chords. These will separated by typing a comma between them. The second half of bar 18 will use a single chord on beat 3.
9. select bar 18 and type G,F#m <enter> Em
10. it is also worth trying these chords using the 'holds' option in Chord Settings (ALT+F5) --- to this, type G...,F#m... <enter> Em... (the three periods tell BIAB to 'hold' the chord).
11. If neither the above work, try using 'shots' instead of holds -- that is use two periods rather than three: G..,F#m.. <enter> Em..
Noel ... thank you so much for your reply and detailed explanation/suggestion. I truly appreciate it. I'm glad I was on the right path, particularly since I am pretty new to BIAB. I got pretty close in setting the bar to 3 beats and then changing the tempo by various amounts, but while it was 'close', it didn't 'feel' natural ... but since this doesn't feel unnatural to play, and is somewhat common, I figured it could be done. This does sound a bit long winded to achieve, I will give your suggestion a try.
Thanks again for the help. There is one other song that has a similar thing happening that I will likely be able to apply this to.
Cheers!
-peter
BIAB for Windows Version 2020 (713) Windows 7 64-bit DAW: Reaper
When you have to do tempo adjustments over time it involves math .. sometimes complex math. I hate doing math (too much room for error when I do it), so I started writing little calculator apps to do it for me. The third entry at the link below does this for you. "Adjust Tempo for Time Signature" It'll tell you the tempo change needed to make a 3/4 bar take the same amount of 'real time' to match a 4/4 bar .. or 6/4 or 5/4 for that matter. The computer does the work. http://tools.masteringmatters.com/
The calculator assumes quarter note as the tempo (*/4), and confirms Noels maths <grin> If your time signature is eighth note, you have to double all the input numbers.
/I thought about making the denominator an option (half, quarter, eighth note etc) but then it looked too complicated for the user (mainly me).
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Hi Noel ... just a quick follow-up; I had pretty much done exactly what you laid out prior to me posting my query aside from the calculation of .75 x 96bpm = 72bpm. I actually had it in my mind that it needed to be quicker, not slower ... but also must admit that I am terrible at math and wouldn't have thought to use math here. I just kept trying different higher tempos, but obviously without using the math, none of the tempos I tried sounded right/even.
In trying your suggestion, which had a similar outcome as my earlier attempt, the 3 beat passage was actually slower. So using your logic, I tried 1.50 x 96 (= 144bpm)and that seemed to do the trick in terms of timing. I will say this, BIAB does not deal with this gracefully, however. I am trying holds and shots and while holds seem to sound a bit better, it feels a little stiff and the beginning of the following bar back at the 96bpm tempo seems to get a little cut-off (hard to explain).
All of that said, your explanation/suggestion was very helpful in me understanding how to handle this situation, so I greatly appreciate the time you took to explain it.
My hope is that PG Music improves upon this. I can think of a lot of situations where this is used.
Thanks again.
Last edited by PWeldon; 02/26/2007:45 PM.
BIAB for Windows Version 2020 (713) Windows 7 64-bit DAW: Reaper
Ahh... I didn't listen closely enough to the music. It's actually a triplet played across two notes in 4/4 and not four notes. In other words, the tempo needs to change by 3/2 x 96.
The formula for the new tempo is still given by the below, it's just that the denominator of the fraction now becomes 2 instead of 4.
With more considered listening, it sounds like this bar is a 2-beat bar in amongst 4-beat bars and that it contains a quarter note triplet in it. Your solution is perfect for this.
rharv ... thanks so much for reply. And for that nifty calculator. I’m absolutely terrible at math, so this will come in handy. I think I now have an acceptable passage in that bar in terms of timing, but as I mentioned to Noel, the sound during that bar is not very good and/or sticks out. Perhaps it’s a limitation of the software, or what I am asking the software to do.
I learned something from posting this question, so that is a positive. I really appreciate folks taking the time to help, and I hope I can get to a place with the software to help others myself.
Thanks for your time and again, for sharing the calculator.
Peter
BIAB for Windows Version 2020 (713) Windows 7 64-bit DAW: Reaper
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