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Joined: Apr 2007
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Hopefully for a future release, I would love the ability to assign one of the Real Track instruments to play an existing midi melody line as written (in other words, with articulations but without too much variation). Thanks!!
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Joined: Aug 2006
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What you are asking for has been talked about at length before. The problem is that RTs are not midi based, nor are they note based. We already have note based audio for midi it is called samples. These are individual notes of audio samples that are velocity layered for midi to trigger.
RT's are full 3 to 5 minute wave files of live audio musc chopped up by the bar and regenerated to fit the bar, chord, and tempo of the song. If you were to chop them all the way down to the individual note level they would be no better than sampled notes. Even if you only triggered then by midi and not to follow midi velocity, bend commands, and such they would never sound quite right.
Who know that technology might come along someday, but it is not here yet or someone would have already tried it.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Apr 2007
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OP
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But if the RealTracks can be triggered by a chord (and play a version of the named chord), why couldn't a RealTrack be triggered by a single note? In other words, I know that RealTracks can be used in a solo generated by BIAB. Clearly there is some note-specific information, presumably generated by BIAB, that is triggering the single-note solos performed by the RealTracks. Why can't the note-specific information found in a midi file perform the same function for a melody track?
In addition, I have Kontakt, Garritan and other sample players, and the sax on RealTracks sounds better than the sax in these sample players, IMHO. Even if the ability to trigger just a single note in RealTracks would not be any different than a sample player, I for one would still prefer the RealTrack note over the other sample-based ones.
Last edited by bharris; 03/14/11 11:59 AM.
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Quote:
... would still prefer the RealTrack note over the other sample-based ones.
A midi triggered RealTrack note would be very much just that -> a sample-based note ...
Martin
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Quote:
A midi triggered RealTrack note would be very much just that -> a sample-based note ...
But what, exactly, would be the difference between a BIAB-triggered note in a RealTrack-generated solo and a midi-triggered note? I assume that the RealTrack solo sounds so good because it has the articulations of the real player - breathing, growl, key sounds, etc. I guess I don't understand why a single-note line triggered by midi notes, rather than BIAB-generated solo notes, should be impossible to achieve. Plus, not all sample-based notes sound alike. To me, the Kontakt and Garritan saxes don't sound quite authentic - the RealTrack sax sounds better, even as individual notes. Sample Modeling makes a good-sounding sax (at least from the website sample), but it is pretty expensive for just one instrument.
Last edited by bharris; 03/14/11 02:50 PM.
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Because RTs use full on wave files 3 to 5 minutes long, not much less than a full bar of sound and many time more than a bar. Maybe in a full bar, there is a couple chord changes, but never a note by note reconstruction. If the chord does not chage for two or three bars it plays two or three bars sections of pre-recorded sax playing. For a single not in a sampler like sampletank or Kontact, it plays one note and that note is controlled by the midi data. For it to bend or slur or change volume and or velocity it has to be told and then it uses it's multiple layered samples. Tha on some instruments causes it to sound unnatural.
If you break a RT down to a single note what will make it piece back together again? Midi? Then it will be governed by the same issues that samples are. Lets take a guitar strum for instance. In a RT, there are many different chords, and lets say you build a song with two bars of G, two bars of C, and one bar of D, the D& and back to G The RT take two full bars of G, and C with the player strumming the chords. There is no break between the notes or strums for the system to have to put back together without hearing the break. The "seems" are few. With sampling notes it has a seem at every note and that is a big problem to piece together without a glitch.
This requires a lot of information, and therefore why simple things like a piano where it is individual note strikes works great, but complicated things like the breath and finger control of a sax suffers.
There is no BiaB triggered notes in a RT solo. It is a solo played in the Key of, not individual notes, just a solo pieced together in sections usually a bar or more each section.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Joined: May 2011
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Think about all the things a guitarist can do other than pick a string. It can be picked hard, picked softly, slapped, snapped, picked with bare fingers, palm muted, picked palm muted and the palm released, or picked and then palm muted during the duration of the note, or the left hand relaxed to do finger muting, and pressure returned to the left hand to undo finger muting while the note is ringing. The guitarist can do string bends, slides, hammer-on, pull off, tremolo bar, neck bends, harmonics, or turning the tuning peg and returning it. In a Real Track, all these techniques lead one note into the next or change qualities of one note as it is played. Horn players have an almost infinite variety of embrasure variations, air pressure, muting and positioning (directly at the microphone or away from it), and other factors influencing the sound. It is not an accident that the best MIDI translations are for piano. The strings are fixed length and the musician does not touch them directly, only through the hammers connected to the keys. This makes them easy and straight-forward to model and quantify as a midi event. Once you get away from the piano, it becomes much more difficult to capture and specify all the parameters needed to reproduce the sound. And at that, I cannot imagine anyone, even going note by note tweaking all the parameters (attack, sustain, volume, decay, and all the others available) and making a MIDI piano track sound as good as a concert pianist would play. As nice as note by note Real Track generation of a MIDI melody track might sound as an idea, all you eventually get back to is re-inventing MIDI. The thing is, even if you could do that, you would drive yourself crazy trying to tweak all possibilities to put the notes together to make them sound the way you want. My guess is you would eventually discover it would be easier to learn the instrument and record the part yourself.  The only way you will ever have the real instrument sound to any specific melody is to have a live human record it or simplify it to the point of falling within the capabilities of MIDI translation, resulting in a mechanical sound. Having Real Tracks take a large collection of building blocks (scales, riffs, arpeggios, and whatever else is under the covers) and a generator that can stitch them together so they sound 'normal' is fantastic. Yes, let's go right out to the edge of getting the most capability of live sound assembly. But, lets do it without limiting the live sound nature in order to stitch ever smaller scraps together to make the sound. Yes, I would like to have more control over the generator and have it look to the melody as well as the chord to improve the fit of a generated Real Track over the melody, but I can't imagine breaking down the granularity to a note for note generation. There would need to be too much normalization and joining two ends of a slur or slide would still have a discernible junction, so that you would never get a natural sound. You would lose dynamics and everything else that makes Real Tracks sound like they are being played by a live musician. Maybe there is a little of John Henry in me, still wanting to beat the steam drill, but I can't imagine in my heart of hearts actually wanting to have this product ever being capable of outperforming living musicians. I want to use it for what it is, and I want it to continue improving. But I don't want it to be a reason for people stop learning to play instruments.
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