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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Under what circumstances would you use the pan setting?
I notice that some styles make use of pan for some instruments. There is also a "set panning mode to stereo" option in BIAB. However whenever I notice an obvious pan effect I find it irritating and always turn it off for listening through phones or with my studio monitors, so when is it useful?
Thanks
Tony
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Drums and bass will always be dead center. Note that I work mainly in MIDI, if that makes a difference. Sometimes I pan the Guitar and Piano tracks for a sense of presence. In some Styles there can be a beautiful interplay between the two that is, IMO, enhanced in stereo. There are stereo instruments available in the higher (GM2) banks, too, and I like to use those occasionally.
When recording in a sequencer I usually use stereo FX on my guitar. Just a question of taste and style.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Under what circumstances would you use the pan setting?
When you render directly to a wave/MP3 file from Biab. Otherwise, set them all to center and export to your fav DAW for a final mix etc.
Trax
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have heard muscians who perform (I don't) say that stereo is a waste of time when performing because only a couple of people sitting in the perfect spot can hear the effect and the sound bounces around the room anyway. If this is the case why use pan settings or am I getting pan and stereo confused?
Tony
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Pan is a function which is permitted by stereo sound reproduction. You didn't say anything about playing live. Stereo is usually impractical there. My comments applied mostly to recorded sound. I am one of those weirdos who likes my live effects in stereo, though.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Speaking for live shows . . . I use the pan settings to give the feeling of a live band and how they stack up on the stage and depending on how far apart my PA speakers are set the stero/panning effect is heard by more than just a couple of audience members. Now whether the audience care about the settings or not is another topic in itself. Personally I doubt it, but it's just one of those little quirks that most musicians deal with, you know, looking for the best sound possible.
Later,
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Hi Tony,
"Pan" means whereabouts an instrument is placed in the stereo field of the music (anywhere between hard left speaker to hard right speaker). "Stereo" on the other hand, means a sound that is produced (and reproduced) by two sources acting independently. To some extent, the two words share a common area of meaning but there are also subtle differences between the pair of words.
In a live performance, panning wouldn't exist too much because all instruments are centrally located. That being said, however, if you want to re-create the "perfect listener position" of a live performance so that others can "feel" and "re-live" that position when listening to a recording, some panning would be required. In this situation, panning would be used so that individual instruments sound like they are in their respective positions on a stage, performing live.
In most modern music, and in most genres, panning is often used as a part of the arrangement process. Panning can be used to enhance the fullness of a sound, to give added definition and clarity to all elements of the sounds recorded, and to increase the general ambiance of the music.
Hope this helps,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
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"I have heard muscians who perform (I don't) say that stereo is a waste of time when performing because only a couple of people sitting in the perfect spot can hear the effect and the sound bounces around the room anyway"
That's comparing live sound to a mix of a recording. Those comments from the musicians are referring to live sound.
The discussion about stereo and mono in a record mix is vast- both from a tracking standpoint and a mixing standpoint. Read up on the web. Tons and tons of info about it out there. Panning absolutely IS part of mixing. You need to pan most mono sources around the stereo field a bit or else you'll have quite a crowded center and it will sound terrible! The thing that makes biab unique is real tracks, and the many different offerings of stereo recorded instruments and mono recorded instruments. Mixing stereo or mono real tracks is a consideration about how exactly you want to do that. And it always depends on the song and what you want to hear and where in the stereo field you want to hear it. All stereo real tracks could theoretically just be panned right up the middle and sound great. Even stereo recorded real tracks sometimes favor more of the right or left side, while still being stereo. As far as I've ever heard, stereo real tracks are true stereo recordings and that is a beautiful thing. Look at the meters and listen closely for it. Generally speaking, panning stereo real tracks to center will be fine- perhaps even better than panning or worse yet, panning against the natural pan characterisitcs of the stereo real track at hand. But there's no rules. Stereo real tracks can be panned hard right, left, anywhere in between , or center to preserve what the recording actually delivers. Some biab styles have default panning that you may or may not like and you are free to adjust that. And often times, it's appropriate to do so. Most mono tracks should be panned about the stereo field to varying degrees. Bass, which most consider should be dead center, can also serve well panned left or right by 5 ticks, to get it off the kick drum a bit. Panning also helps reduce eq'ing a bit too. It's a form of moving things out of each others way. Short of that, you'll need to eq like a madman to separate things. And then things get more interesting with stereo reverbs and such. But panning is a tool and although there are no rules persay, you'll need to use that tool, learn how to best do it, and be happy you have the tool.
And when you REALLY want to have some fun- throw on old mowtown records and see how THAT stuff was handled. RADICAL can descibe it, compared to what we consider the norm now. And yet, you bring the balance control back to center and it wouldn't, couldn't sound any better than what they did on those records!
And then there's delay panning...DOH! Let's leave it at that! LOL!
Dan
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You can pan all you want. When the room is not a perfect square and you set it up at home it becomes a waste of time.
I have tried all the tricks.
I now am on the Bose mono thing, big stick and a nice bass module. This for me has been the best solution. If you have time, the guys to do it, and the gear, then great, go for a stereo thing in a stadium near you.
If not, go for some good bass, a nice high end, and muck around with the placement of your instruments live.
I'm not hearing from people that they don't like the set up. But that's a whack of old people listing to the likes on NY NY, or Call me irresponsible. Actually it's my speakers that are maybe not responsible, or they are. Too much angst is taken up with this subject. Test some gear, and go with your gut.
A few tone deaf relatives and a bar owner should be your guide. You think you are Stan Kenton, forget it. If you don't know who he is you should spend a couple of hours of your life figuring that out.
Record your stuff and play in back standing out there. And on a break, do it with the seats full. Different effects both ways. And if you are running regular gear try and crossover and some bass bins. I run the Bose now, but the first things people comment on are the bass. Neil Swanson and Dr. Peter Gannon have hit a home run on that issue. Call me wrong, it won't work. The bass RealTracks and the whole effect are a home run. Or a UFEA away goal. Or a big time try. Maybe a hat trick. Just work with it.
JMSOOTCR (Just my sort of off the cuff remarks).
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
Under what circumstances would you use the pan setting?
When you render directly to a wave/MP3 file from Biab. Otherwise, set them all to center and export to your fav DAW for a final mix etc.
Trax
I understand and agree with this advice.
The interesting thing is, I don't usually follow it. When I set the pan in BIAB for the guitar (left) and piano (right) as I want them, I do the Drag & Drop into SONAR without centering those tracks first. Once in SONAR, restoring the pan to about the same place I had it in BIAB makes things sound correct to me. Perhaps this works because the SONAR track is stereo.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'd use it for romanian realtracks by Zamfir but those didn't show up yet. (:
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I allways use panning and stereo for live playback. Is it perfect - no. Is it better than mono - yes. Does it do any harm - not in my oppinion. I also frequently listen to my tracks in the car for learning purposes. I played a gig last weekend with terrible sound for me but most of the tables were seated for great sound during dinner. Tracks and vocals were were about 30 feet apart with stereo piano and guitar in the middle. Since most of the tracks were just bass and drums they were panned to the center. When a string part or brass section came in it made it sound more realistic - like a live band.
I have heard fine symphony orchestras that sound great with perfect seating back about 40 rows and not so good the next night when the seats are less than ideal.
Make your tracks sound as good as you can and realize live perfromance is allways impacted by the accoustical environemnt you perform in.
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