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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I am a Vocalist/Horn/Bass player and I work with a keyboardist in a duo. I have a fully-loaded Fantom x8...and have thought about using on gigs and it's midi sounds instead of Coyote Forte...
Jazzmammal's comments on using a high end keyboard and it's midi sounds in another thread got my attention... I know it is probably easy, but can you point me to the best way to get BB/RB to use those internal sounds from the X8? Sorry, for the elementary question but I am not well versed in this area...yet...
Thanks!
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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I have a Fantom X6 and use it on live gigs, it sounds great. I prepare our songs in Sonar, sometimes using BIAB, more often using commercially prepared midi files which we buy but they're not expensive. I store our songs in MIDI format in sets on the X6. You can invoke a live play feature in the Fantom X and put the songs into banks so that each function key at the bottom of the screen loads the song shown on the screen above the function keys. You can also import text files into the Fantom X so that your set list can show on the screen. All I have to do at a gig is press one key and the next song loads.
Another tip: route the drums channel 10 to a separate drum machine and have that playing through a powered speaker in the position where the drummer would sit. This sounds a lot more realistic and relieves the main PA of the demanding transients of drums.
John
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Band-in-a-Box:
Opt. | MIDI/Audio Driver Setup, and select the MIDI output driver (for example, the name of the MIDI interface device that connects the computer to the Fantom).
Also, make sure that "Use VST/DXi Synth" is NOT checked.
RealBand:
Options | MIDI Devices, and select the MIDI output driver.
Also, make sure that "Re-Route MIDI playback to default Dxi/VSTi Synth" is NOT checked.
Blake
PG Music Inc.
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Hi Ken, that X8 allows you to mix up to 8 audio tracks with your midi tracks. I would be looking to using Real Tracks on the audio tracks and just using midi for certain song specific licks that you need. I've mixed a bunch of midi files like that using Real Band. I start with a decent midi file and then replace what I can with several RT's like piano, bass or guitar. There is nothing like hearing a real acoustic bass RT instead of a midi acoustic bass no matter how good the sample is. You could mix in a RT Soloist as well. You set up the file so you and your partner are trading solos with a RT soloist. Also, a lot of songs have cool drum fills or punches to go with the tune but for the most part the drums are just grooving along. I guarantee you the midi drums in the X8 have a sound quality very close to a RD track. Generate a RD track but mute it or delete it for the one bar that has a cool lick or punch and let the X8 midi drums do that then you're back grooving with a Terry Clarke RD. Lots of times I will use several different RD tracks, including percussion and then figure out which one I want to use in which part of the song and take those parts and put them on one track and delete the rest. You can come up with an unbelievablly great sounding drum/percussion track that way. A knowledgable listener will be asking you how the heck did you do that?
I use a Korg Pa1XPro for live playback of midi files on a gig when I need that but it doesn't have the option to mix audio files with the midi, I wish it did. Good quality midi bass and drums do sound pretty good and I'm sure your X8 sounds good too but the RT/RD's take it to a whole other level. You can't beat live studio players.
RB is definitely the program you want to use for this not Biab.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks so much for your replies! I am excited about trying out all these great ideas! Looks like I have been missing a great opportunity with the Fantom! You guys are the best!
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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I am working on hooking up the Fantom X8 to RB/BIAB as Blake described and have a couple of questions:
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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oops! hit the wrong key...sorry
the Fantom has a USB port on the back and Midi...
I own a FastTrack Pro interface
What would be the preferred way to connnect it to my computer...considering live performance issues
Do I need the FastTrack?
I guess I'm asking if I use Midi or USB?
Thanks!
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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Some machines can use usb as midi. I have a Bose and the 'device' or small mixer is USB, though not midi, I have a usb based midi interface.
The best you can do is wait for the right answer. Obviously you've found a pro user.
Maybe you could have the process explained in detail, and then once refined it can go into the tips part of the boards.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Thanks John! I am starting to get a handle on this by reading my Fantom manual and by some good feedback. I believe I can use the USB or the midi ports on my Fantom. I was wondering if one was preferable over the other. I can always use the FastTrack Pro (...it has Midi and USB ports also...hmmm)
As you said I have heard from very knowledgeable users, including you, and am sure with a little more input I will start to understand this even better.
I love this forum!
Thanks!
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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I have used all kinds of keyboards. My new one is a Korg ps60 which replaced my older Roland. I spent at least a month of woe trying to make the Roland play midi through Band in a Box.
I know there are all kinds of sides to this, but if you were to post 6 songs you'd gig with, we might save you some grief.
ASIO, that's a 4 letter word.
I ended up with my keyboard to a volume pedal (well sustain too on the other foot) to the mixer. Let Real instruments do the drums, the bass, and some other stuff, and I play adding organ, piano, or layered with strings or synth.
I do have a voicelive in the mix, and I am using it at home a lot, but my voice is quite damaged and I'm not sure it is going to get better. It used to be an ok bass baritone, now I'm basso profundo missimus sometime-e-mus it just goes away.
I think there has been consensus that one Realtrack can make a standard midi track sound better, I think it takes away the mechanical part to a degree and masks it.
There are many ways to do things, some use band in a box and jukebox together.
Others just load up and play sets.
Some use midi only.
Some mix them with Realtracks.
Some are using only Realtracks.
Some render the files and use the mp3 or take it to a DAW and mess with it, panning things.
Some are very anal about panning and stereo.
Others like me don't because I'm mono, and truth be told I used to do 30 gigs a year and none of the rooms were suited to stereo anyway, and I just played with band in a box about 3 or 4 times, the rest of the time I used it for practice and then just did my thing, like piano lounge style. It was always hard to find the stereo settings on a grand piano anyway.
Then there are all the variations in RealBand, even more so than in Band in a Box.
I remember wanting to play the vibraphone with my keyboard via midi and pulling out my hair, then at the end of the day, why?
I'd be more interested in your explanation of how you take
1. audio (IE realtracks)
2. midi out to ?what?
3. keyboard out to?
So at the end of the chain what are you running for PA gear?
Perhaps a good start is listing the 6 songs and then we haggle.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Bebop,
When you get the Fantom zeroed in, you will think Biab is a whole new software when those midi parts start playing. Kind of like Real Tracks vs the VSC etc . . .
A good sound module or keyboard makes the Biab styles come to life !!! You will definitely want to use the midi sounds of the Fantom vs the VSC or Coyote.
Trax
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Ken, are you talking about running Biab live on a gig using your X8 for sound or are you talking about using Biab at home to create a file that you load into the X8 and then use that for gigging? The reason is some have problems with USB when it comes to live music production. If you change midi ports, it suddenly won't see the device or even simply rebooting the computer it won't see the device and you're messing around with it to get it back. I know some people decide to stick to the tried and true midi cable connection because of that. If you're just at home, no big deal but at a gig trying to use it with a laptop it could be a very big deal. Let us know what you're intending to do with this stuff and give some song examples like John asked.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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The mainthing to remember is the difference bewteen audio and MIDI. Assuming you use a mixer whenplaying out live;
Connect the Fantom MIDI USB port. Assign the MIDI output device to the Fantom (as described by Blake). Note this will likely require you install the MIDI driver software from Roland for it to appear in the list. This driver will be on your Fantom disk and/or available from Roland support.
Using the FastTrack MIDI instead would not reuire installing that driver. Either would work, and again remember the MIDI IN from Fantom would connect to the MIDI Out from the FastTrack.
Then connect the Fantom audio out to the mixer. If you want to use realtracks, as mentioned these can be loaded into the Fantom, but not necessary. Just leave BiaB/RB audio connection as it was when you used it previously, assuming line out from soundcard to mixer. Playing the song after these changes should make the MIDI sounds come from the Fantom. Note that you *may* want to change some of the program changes to use other patches from the Fantom; you should have hundreds (or thousands)available, but get it working in basic form before worrying about this part.
MIDI is MIDI, but you'll need to account for the *audio* out from the Fantom once you change the MIDI device driver to the Fantom. I use a Juno-G which is very much like your Fantom, and I use either USB (when connecting to computer) or the regular MIDI connection (when using other devices). There is a switch in the user interface for the Juno that assigns the USB port to be either -
A. a MIDI connection or
B. a data connection to the computer
So you may need to pay attention to that in the Fantom as well.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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OK, here are some details about my "stuff" and my gigs
I have had the Fantom X8 for a while and I use it in my Music room...mostly at home. It is an "88" and weighs a lot... I usually carry a Ensoniq KS-32 for pads on the gig. I have been using coyote WT until lately and I upgraded to Forte. The difference in midi sound was amazing to me...then I read in the forums about how much better the high-end synths were... I realized I probably owned one in the Roland X8 and could avoid spending a hunk of cash if I was willing to carry it to the gig with me.
I have been playing BIAB directly from computer into a 500w Yamaha EMX5104c Stereo powered mixer into either/or (depending on room) 2 Bose 802's and/or 2 Kustom 15/horn enclosures. I carry my bass amp: 100w Roland Cube. I use the stereo to place myself on the vocals/bass/tpt and the keyboardist on vocals/keys...very simple but has worked well so far.
I am a Jazz Trumpet player w/some doubles...Ha! I was on the road for over 20 years. Being a horn player, I have never been satisfied with midi horns in section patches and that is not available in RTs, yet. So when I heard the improvement of the Coyote Forte, I had to start exploring even better sounds...
Examples of different types of songs we might have in a set:
This Masquerade (Benson)
Don't Get Around Much Anymore
All the Things You Are
Don't Be Cruel
Moon Dance
Crazy
The Very Thought of You
You Don't Know Me
You'll Never Find (Lou Rawls)
Dancing in the Dark (Springsteen)
I was not aware of the X8s ability to control play back on the gig...that's great...but maybe a big learning curve for me...BUT I would love to have that ability!
I was thinking of running BIAB/RB on the gig as usual and using the midi sounds from the Fantom instead of Coyote Forte...but my thinking is changing due to the experience and expertise in all your responses...Thanks!
I use RTs every chance I get and have never been a midi fan until lately...it is improving enough to please my "purist" attitude... In fact, I avoided BIAB for years simply to avoid midi drum sounds... When I heard the RealDrums...I was sold!
Forgive my long Bio...just wanted to answer your questions and give a little insight to my thinking on this matter
Thanks All!
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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You WILL want to use the midi patches from the Fantom vs Coyote. Night and day in sound, just sayin. If you are happy with the Coyote Forte, no problem and keep on rockin. If it was me, I'd be using the Fantom as my midi playback device.
Trax
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Have you got patch map for it or is it already posted here?
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Patch map is no problem; John Green (Skyline, above) has one at Support, Patch Maps on this site. Several of us have SRX expansion modules, which require additions to the patch map, so let us know which ones you have, if any.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Everytime I get a reply from you guys it sends me off on another adventure...just trying to find out what you just said...actually, I am having a ball!
I did find the .pat file for the Roland and my keyboardist has a Yamaha S90es so I got that one, too!
I do have an expansion module for "Pianos?"...can't remember the exact name...so I will post it after the grandkids calm down a bit and I can get out to my office...
I spent time last night reading the Roland manual about Midi, USB/Midi ports usage, and trying to figure out how to use the X8 to control playback like Skyline... I really like that idea! I still don't know quite how to accomplish it all...but I am getting there. I don't suppose there is a tutorial or step by step out there? It probably sounds more difficult than it really is...right?...;o)!
I appreciate all this great input!
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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Give us the SRX number on the module. You might have to pop the little cover. I think Fantom 6,7,and 8s have two card slots.
My Fantom XR has six slots, and I have four modules. The code for these is all the same. In fact, John Green helped me out when I first got it. Some modules have code already prepared.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Ken, all this stuff about patch maps and expansion cards is good info and you may need it later but for now I'm suggesting you KISS it and keep everything GM. GM is the industry standard set of instructions for synths that allows you to play back SMF files. The Forte DXi is a GM synth. SMF stands for Standard Midi File. SMF's all use the GM sound bank. No patch maps necessary.
.
Most of the time the GM bank is not as good as all the other patches when you compare each instrument but it's very convenient because you don't do squat except put your synth into GM mode. A high end synth like yours has a great sounding GM bank and it could very easily be good enough for you. I have the Roland Sonic Cell and it's the same thing with that. Individual instrument patches are better than the GM bank but it's close enough that I really don't care most of the time. Loading and playing an SMF is a no brainer. Like most of us here, I'm busy with lots of other things and I get lazy sometimes.
I downloaded and skimmed through the manual for the X8. You put it into Performance mode and select the GM Performance bank. Your X8 has a PC Card slot as well as USB. You can pick one of those up and put it into your computer and copy some SMF's onto it. If you don't have any SMF's now then create some with Biab, save it on the card and plug the card into your X8. Biab has a save option for that because Biab uses GM as the default. This is not using Real Tracks, just midi then in the X8 open the song play function and choose Quick Play from the card and hit the Play button on your sequencer control area. Nothing to do, nothing to set up, just hit play and hear what it sounds like. I think you will be blown away.
This is the simple quick way to get started. The more detailed way is to hook up your USB cable (in the manual under USB) and copy a folder full of your songs into the X8 and organize them however you want to. The X8 allows lots of ways to control the playback of SMF's. It's all in the manual under Playing a Song.
Now after reading all this you may be thinking but what about setting up my laptop, running Biab and just use the X8 for sound at a gig? You can do that but why? You're not likely to be changing the order of the playback of the song using Biab live on a gig. Technically you can by using the Conductor feature but you only have two hands and you're busy performing. It's hard to have to look at a laptop screen, tell exactly where you're at and hit one of the number keys that tells Biab to jump or loop a section of the song all the while you're busy singing and playing. Much easier to forget all that and load the files into the X8 ahead of time. The X8 has it's own way of doing the exact same thing as Biab's Conductor. See the Song Playback section of your manual. You control all that right from the X8.
Once you've gotten used to playing SMF's then look at the patch map and creating your own custom instrument list on a song by song basis. You can also look at loading in audio files to play along with an SMF. This is where you can create your Real Tracks and Real Drums tracks and maybe only use the midi patches on the X8 for a few select instruments but I would make that much later, get used to creating and using basic GM midi files for now.
Don't be intimidated by all this. That manual is actually pretty clear and easy to read. It took me longer to write this out than it did to read about these functions in the manual. Don't look at all the confusing parts of that manual that have nothing to do with what we're discussing right now. Just read the sections about selecting a Performance, loading and playing songs, the PC card and connecting to your PC via USB.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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Jan 19th, 2020
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