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I was previously exposed to melodyne as a standalone app, and I didn't like the hassle of exporting a track,altering it in Melodyne, then bringing it back into the project at the right place.
I notice that most of the pitch correction programs now come as plugins, and I'd like to hear from anybody who is using any of them in that way. I'm most interested in hearing about Melodyne, Autotune, TCHelicon and Izotope Nectar. If you've used any of these as a plugin, I'd like to hear your thoughts about how easy or difficult it is to change the audio without having to leave RB.
I'm not asking anybody to go into research mode, as I can do that myself... problem is, the ads don't tell me the stuff I want to know.. My first learning tactic, before investing a lot of time researching the bottomless pit of things I don't know yet, is to ask in hope that somebody I know has already been down this road.
Nectar looks particularly interesting, but it costs more than the others. Best product for me would be one that lets me make non-destructive edits inside the host program, with the ability to manually tweak the notes in terms of pitch, duration, throat modelling, vibrato... even t-pain effect
thoughts?
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Pat, i used Melodyne, both as a stand alone, and as a plug in inside both Sonar, and Reaper. It worked well as long as you did not push it to far, where it crashed either program. AS A stand alone it is great as you know. I also used the pitch correction plugs in both Reaper, and Multitrackstudios. Both worked, Reapers was a bit confusing for me personally. The one in MTS worked very well, no graphical GUI, but the results were very good. The TC Helicon inside BiaB. PT, and RB works pretty good for harmonies if you use it lightly.
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If you want Pitch Correction to work at its best, it's important to identify the root note and scale of the recording you want to process. You can, obviously, do this by working out the tune on a keyboard and, if you don't read music, look up the scale on the Internet or in a book. However, you could use Logic's Audio To Score facility to determine the notes in the performance, and thence the scale. To do this, double-click on the audio region, open the Sample editor and select 'Audio To Score' from the Factory menu. This brings up a window that lets you choose the type of recording you want to analyse. Clicking on 'Process' creates a MIDI region and opens a score editor containing Logic's interpretation of the notes in the recording. You may have to edit the notes, depending on how well Logic has interpreted the audio. The plug-in itself allows you to select from a list of scales, and you can also create a user scale directly, or modify the existing ones by removing or adding notes. The range icons allow you to select the kind of audio you're working with. It's important to get this setting right, as the plug-in works differently depending on the audio type it's processing.
Last edited by Kent - PG Music; 01/16/12 03:36 PM.
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Hi Pat I don't mind the hassle of using Melodyne as a standalone. This way I can stay within RB which is my DAW of choice. Doesn't take much effort to save the vocal track as a wav, then import it into Melodyne, or save it when you're done - IMO.  There's a freebee plugin that is good for spot correction, as opposed to full track correction which can leave artifacts. That is G-Snap. The thing with all of them is not to correct to "zero" - it's too unnatural - better +/- something. That's why Melodyne's "blobs"are so great - you can turn off the "snap to" and slide your correction to a more natural correction. Cheers - Ian
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Quote:
The TC Helicon inside BiaB. PT, and RB works pretty good for harmonies if you use it lightly.
what comes with RB is a harmonizer only... TCHelicon also makes a pitch correction plug
Quote:
If you want Pitch Correction to work at its best, it's important to identify the root note and scale of the recording you want to process
I've found this to be more important for creating harmonies, because different harmonic notes are chosen depending on the key. For pitch correction I assume I'm already in the ballpark, and I just want a graphical representation of my error so I can drag my screwup to the right place. But I also want to use harmony plugs, and that is an excellent idea for determining the key! Thanks!
Quote:
I don't mind the hassle of using Melodyne as a standalone.
This way I can stay within RB which is my DAW of choice. Doesn't take much effort to save the vocal track as a wav, then import it into Melodyne, or save it when you're done - IMO.
I agree Ian... it shouldn't be such an inconvenience to use a standalone. But
a) I'm spoiled by the ease of use plugins provide and
b) I don't own melodyne yet, I've just experimented with an older demo that apparently doesn't have a plugin mode. When I buy a product for pitch correction, it will be something with a plugin, mostly because I'm lazy.
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I have a "just wondering" question.
I do not have and do not us any of these items or utilities and have done essentially zero research, other then read an ad or two and check a few prices.
However, could someone please give a quick description, if any, of the use for any of these utilities, other than vocals, within the context of the original question "pitch correction" (not harmonies, that is a separate topic which I do understand).
Thanks
Larry
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Hi Pat The current Melodyne Assistant has a plugin and standalone - but the plugin does not function with the RB engine. I found this out on the Celemony forum. So unless PG can make some adjustments, the Melodyne Assistant will only be available via the Standalone. Truth be told Pat, I'd use the plugin portion if I could.  By the way, there is a 30 day trial for Melodyne available. Celemony web page FWIW - Perhaps PG should look into this. Cheers
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Hey Larry
Well let's say you've got a great guitar solo except for one bad note - pitch correction would be the way to go correct that single note.. For Vocals, if you want to change a note or two in the melody . . . most of this software can tame "warble" or excessive tremolo - your ears have to be the judge of how good they are. Some instruments correct better than others. If you're thinking of changing a key - up or down 1 or 2 - it might work . . . . depends on the instrument, and I'm not sure how a voice would respond beyond a semi-tone or two.
Melodyne on their full version claims to be able to correct one note in a mix - never tried it.
I'd visit some software sites where your explanations would be fuller.
Good luck - Ian
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Quote:
Hi Pat
The current Melodyne Assistant has a plugin and standalone - but the plugin does not function with the RB engine.
I found this out on the Celemony forum. So unless PG can make some adjustments, the Melodyne Assistant will only
be available via the Standalone.
Truth be told Pat, I'd use the plugin portion if I could.
By the way, there is a 30 day trial for Melodyne available.
Celemony web page
FWIW - Perhaps PG should look into this.
Cheers
good information Ian... I was about to jump on the assistant... but if it doesn't work (actually doesn't show up in the list of known DAWs that are compatible) then I don't want it because it defeats my purpose. I will probably DL the demo to see if it does work in RB... just because it isn't on the list doesn't mean it won't work)
or, did you see a list that specifically names RB as a DAW that DOESN'T work with the melodine VST?
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Quote:
I have a "just wondering" question.
I do not have and do not us any of these items or utilities and have done essentially zero research, other then read an ad or two and check a few prices.
However, could someone please give a quick description, if any, of the use for any of these utilities, other than vocals, within the context of the original question "pitch correction" (not harmonies, that is a separate topic which I do understand).
Thanks
Larry
another good application is for recordings of fretless instruments where poor intonation can ruin the track (steel guitar, fretless bass, slide guitar etc)... an otherwise good performance can be fixed without having to re-record the whole passage. Sure, you can play it right, but it might take many more tries than you have time for. It's a productivity tool... audio notes can now be fixed in the same way as MIDI notes have always been fixable.
Or if you decide after the talent has left the studio that he should have played a 3rd instead of the 5th... you can drag the errant note to the preferred location. There are many uses. It also corrects timing errors
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Which pitch correction tool you use depends to some extent on how you want to apply it.
With plugins like Melodyne, there's a preprocessing step which identifies which chunks of the audio are at what pitch. You can then move these chunks to the correct pitch.
With plugins like Auto-Tune and GSnap, analysis is done on the fly. It's essentially instantaneous - it only takes a single wave cycle for autocorrelation to latch on to the frequency.
But once the pitch is identified, the plugin has the task of "pulling" the wave to the proper pitch. Unless you're going for the Cher/T-Pain effect, it'll take a moment or two to pull the pitch to the correct frequency. This works well if the pitch is fairly close to the target. If not, there's a bit of a "scoop" as the wave is brought up to pitch.
So if the correction involves changing the pitch, something like Melodyne (which allows chunks to be shifted) is probably the best approach. It also lets you adjust the forment, so the timbre of the shifted pitch isn't out of character.
If you're more concerned with staying on pitch, something like GSnap is great in keeping your held notes from going flat.
Of course, it's always best to re-record the note.
If you're on a budget, you can also manually pitch-shift the offending bits to the right notes, and use GSnap to stay on pitch.
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Pat here's a demo of using reatune in reaper. It might give you some ideas. If you notice in the video, he's correcting to exact pitch, which works well in that context because he's working with harmonies. But for a single vocal, you can vary the line and move in and out of pitch. In other words, just make it a better singer but not a perfect singer lol. Reaper is a free download and not hampered in any way so you could play around with it some if you wanted. If your needs are fairly simple, it may do the trick. For what it's worth, and as near as I can tell, melodyne crashes in every daw I read about, BUT, just about everybody says it's still worth it lol. Of course, they're working on it all the time, and they're (melodyne) supposed to be working on a standard that will be made available to daw makers sometime soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJpjZtgPR_g&feature=player_embedded
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I should have noted that RealBand supports manually shifting pitches, so the "free" option is available.
Although ReaTune works nicely (not as nice as Melodyne, but more affordable), it's native to Reaper, and won't run from inside RealBand.
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Just like Meth. "Don't do it. Not even once"
It can be addictive and then you never really learn to sing. Work on your chops. Get a voice coach. Anything!Using RTs and such is one thing but to Dr. your voice or playing to the point that you're showing off something you can't do & calling it you is sort of weird. JMHO. I'm not really that humble but trying to be better.
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Quote:
Just like Meth. "Don't do it. Not even once
AutoTune/Pitch Correction software is used on EVERY CD that is published today, and most of these singers CAN hit the pitches required. ... and it is not just used for pitch correction. That reason alone is good enough to learn how to use auto tune.
My feeling is this: I don't use it -- but if and when I put out a CD that I want people to lay down money for, I will do everything to make sure the vocals are pretty decently in pitch. Not perfect, mind you, but closer to wavering around the desired pitch.
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Quote:
Just like Meth. "Don't do it. Not even once"
It can be addictive and then you never really learn to sing. Work on your chops. Get a voice coach. Anything!Using RTs and such is one thing but to Dr. your voice or playing to the point that you're showing off something you can't do & calling it you is sort of weird. JMHO. I'm not really that humble but trying to be better.
the way one looks at this depends on what the person hopes to accomplish. For myself, I'm not interested in making music to exalt myself or even to show what I can do. To me, music is an elevated concept which stands or falls on the merit of how it sounds, and even on its ability to move the emotions of its listeners.
To that end, MY goal is to write and record songs that have a message I consider to be significant and worthy of being heard, and I don't want my personal inadequacies to interfere with that goal. It isn't about me at any stage of the production, its all about the idea and the message.
Do you consider it to be less weird to play along with music that has been recorded by someone else, and call it a song you wrote? I have my own answer to that question, but in the context of this exchange, its a question worth asking.
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I listen to a lot of music recorded by people like us... enthusiasts but not pros. Much of the music is quite good, but much of the singing is horrendous. I suppose these people are too proud to imagine they might benefit from a little help in the pitch department... but whether they do or not, I stop listening as soon as I hear the first funky note. I suspect a lot of people do.
There is so much truly top notch music competing for the same ears... if you want people to listen to your music, it needs to be nearly perfect. As Kemmrich said, the pros are ALL doing it, and they're better than I am.
If you're serious about music, The stakes are too high to miss the mark in any way whatsoever
We live in an age of technical excellence. Bows and arrows can't compete with laser guided missiles. In every arena, the best technology wins.
again, all of this depends on the end goal. A tribe that values tradition more than winning might prefer to get wiped out by missiles rather than pursue the latest technology.
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Quote:
I listen to a lot of music recorded buy people like us... enthusiasts but not pros. Much of the music is quite good, but much of the singing is horrendous.
Hey, I resemble that remark.
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really the whole concept of using a program like BIAB or RB is to fill in the blanks where we lack ability. (at least that's one of the ways *I* use the program)
I want to write songs that require a LOT of instruments I don't have time to learn. MIDI solves some of that, by letting me play a passage on an instrument controller I know how to play, then assigning a patch for the instrument I will never know how to play.
In my mind, the voice is just another instrument. Unlike the others, I do have some proficiency with the voice... but just as we send direct input of an instrument to Amplitube to achieve the effects we hear on our favorite songs, a vocal processor does approximately the same thing.
I know a guy who wouldn't play or record or let anyone hear him until he felt like he had practiced enough to be "good enough" . Now he has cancer and a few months to live. He never used the time he had to make music because he was afraid somebody would criticize his technique.
I'm not doing that. Even if I suck at singing or playing certain instruments, I intend to use every tool available to actualize the ideas in my head before I forget the ideas or before my time on the planet runs out.
and regarding METH... the same musician mentioned above is now taking highly addictive pain killers. He mentioned to his doctor that they are addictive, and the doctor replied "you don't have time to get addicted."
At age 59, that's how I feel about getting addicted to the musical technologies that ease my pain.
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Quote:
Quote:
I listen to a lot of music recorded buy people like us... enthusiasts but not pros. Much of the music is quite good, but much of the singing is horrendous.
Hey, I resemble that remark.
no you don't Dan. Or more precisely, if YOU do, almost ALL of us do. (certainly *I* do)
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