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Quote:
The "Other" Bob
Hey!! I'm the other Bob around here. Jeesh, I get busy for two days and somebody's jackin my name...
I know, lets draw numbers, Bob1, Bob2, Bob3 etc. I'll bet there's at least 10 of us. Then we can put all our posts in some sort of internet randomizer and post them under different numbers. And whatever post goes under your real number, you've gotta defend it. Whaddya think of that?? Hmmm, just think I could give someone totally unrelated to this thread a real nasty blast and if you drew that number, it's like a two headed baby, you've gotta love it.
And, Flatpicker Bob was not in any way being mean. You want mean, sarcastic, be thrown off the forum, get me going. I've had to suddenly shut down a train of posts because I was scaring myself.
Some haven't been around this forum long enough to understand Notes position around here. Yes he's been blessed by PG himself and aside from some implied advertising he's posted some of the very best tutorials explaining in great detail exactly how Biab works and how he creates those excellent styles of his. Why would he do that, give away all his secrets like that you ask? Because it took years of study and experimentation to develop what he does and it's definitely not worth it for most of us to try to duplicate that. But some like to get their hands dirty so he's posted exact instruction how to create your very own personalized styles. I think that alone validates his being here.
Bob1, er maybe it's Bob2, oh crap what number am I anyway?
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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jazzmammal, Quote:
Flatpicker Bob was not in any way being mean.
I appreciate you saying that. I thought I was being nice. ... Restrained even!!! LOL.
Quote:
Some haven't been around this forum long enough to understand Notes position around here. Yes he's been blessed by PG himself and aside from some implied advertising he's posted some of the very best tutorials explaining in great detail exactly how Biab works and how he creates those excellent styles of his.
Well said. I've learned a lot from Notes posts and threads. I hope he doesn't get discouraged by a handful of people who don't realize he's sharing what he's learned from the school of hard knocks. A lot of people would keep it to themselves.
Now for the Bob1, Bob2, etc. ... We'll have to figure that one out later. 
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Man, this is getting tedious. “The "Other" Bob, (aka 90 dB), I wasn't being "mean" by using the term "music envy". I was being honest. That's often misinterpreted as being "mean". I also occasionally use sarcasm to make a point. Unfortunately, that can also be mistaken for "mean". If you're looking for "mean", then consider the unjustified barbs thrown at Notes Norton anytime he mentions MIDI.” Reading comprehension problem, Bob? I never used the word 'mean', while you use it here four times to ostensibly quote me. The term I used was 'nasty'. Reading your subsequent posts, I still believe the term is apropos. If you re-read my original post, it was not an an 'unjustified barb', but rather my opinion on MIDI vs. Samples. Not that I have to “justify” my comments to you, but I have actually done the same kind of act as Notes for over 30 years (20 in the same market). If that doesn't give me a right to an opinion, I would ask what background you have to deny my right to express it. Conversely, your original post: “PRearden, Don't you think you're a little new here to be calling out one of the oldest forum members? If I recall correctly, aren't you the one who posted a "fake" song on Users Showcase and then made fun of those who commented? -------------------- Bob” Aside from the overtly nasty tone, I think that this sentiment is very revealing. It has even been repeated by other members in this thread. If you are 'new here', your opinion should be discounted? A new member cannot debate 'one of the oldest' forum members? Is there a set post count at which a member is fully “vested”, or is it an arbitrary number subject to your whim? In future I will submit my opinions for your approval prior to posting them. (Now that's sarcasm). Regards, Bob # 14
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There's an easy solution to this whole argument / discussion guys.
Bottom line, live and let live.
Try it, it actually might work.
Tim
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Quote:
There's an easy solution to this whole argument / discussion guys.
Bottom line, live and let live.
Try it, it actually might work.
Tim
I don't know if you've been here long enough to say something like that, Tim.
Regards,
Bob # 1745
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Well bob maybe, maybe not, but it's still true.
so exactly how long do you have to be here before you can express an opinion?
Tim
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Quote:
... so exactly how long do you have to be here before you can express an opinion?
if you had BIAB for DOS, you've been here long enough.
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LOL. Then I definitely qualify.
Oh the good old dos days and BIAb.
In some ways I thought BIAb ran better in DOS then in Windows.
Tim\
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Ha, ha -- I had BIAB for DOS, but I never used it. The first version I tried to use was BIAB for windows 3.1 (is that the right version?). But I never really liked it, because it sounded so "midi" (which ties back nicely into some of this thread at least).
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Quote:
Aside from the overtly nasty tone, I think that this sentiment is very revealing. It has even been repeated by other members in this thread. If you are 'new here', your opinion should be discounted? A new member cannot debate 'one of the oldest' forum members? Is there a set post count at which a member is fully “vested”, or is it an arbitrary number subject to your whim?
In future I will submit my opinions for your approval prior to posting them. (Now that's sarcasm).
You're missing out one very important point guys, the avatar that you use, that has to be run past Bobcflatpicker as well 
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post348389
martin
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Yeah I agree, it didn't sound that great.
I think there was only 24 styles, but I thought the concept of the software was ahead of it's time so stuck with it.
I believe Pg was one of the first to come up with this idea for the PC.
Later I used a program called Jammer which was similar, but I liked bIAB better.
Tim
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Quote:
Well bob maybe, maybe not, but it's still true.
so exactly how long do you have to be here before you can express an opinion?
Tim
Of course everybody gets to express his/her opinion as a forum member... there is no seniority system here. I think the point being made (and good communication seeks to answer the true intent of a post rather than a misinterpreted or spun version of it)... the point being made is that a very short view of a situation can lead to a distorted understanding of the big picture.
Have you ever taken a video of yourself and stopped it randomly on one frame? Chances are that the one transitional frame is not flattering... eyes may be halfway between blinks or mouth may be contorted forming a word...
The same is true in forum discussion. A long history of someone's helpfulness and goodwill makes it easier to identify when the outward appearance of one awkward thread is not consistent with who you know that person to be.
Without that history, a kneejerk response is much more likely, and IMO, we're seeing some of that here.
I think the negative reactions of those who are seeing only what's being said at the moment should be useful to the old timers who may have gotten used to taking liberties without being challenged.
But the response of the long term forum members is also useful because it speaks from a broader perspective.
How we respond to all of this depends on whether we want to fight or fit in. Everybody gets to make that call for himself.
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Quote:
Quote:
The "Other" Bob
Hey!! I'm the other Bob around here. Jeesh, I get busy for two days and somebody's jackin my name...
I know, lets draw numbers, Bob1, Bob2, Bob3 etc. I'll bet there's at least 10 of us.<...>
(thanks for the kind words, Bob and Bob).
That's how I started using the nickname "Notes".
Long before we had these forums on the web, we conversed via usenet/newsgroups - completely text based part of the Internet. Modems were dial up and slooooow back then, so typing as few characters as possible was helpful. I was on an alt.saxophone forum and there were a number of Bobs -- and more than one Bob Norton (Imagine that!)
My sister is a CPA and used to be in business with another accountant who had nicknames for everybody. He called me "Notes".
So in order not to type, "Bob Norton from Florida" to distinguish me from the other Bob Norton, I just adopted "Notes" for on-line purposes. And it stuck.
And Kevin, I remember BiaB for DOS - I hated DOS and made most of my styles on the Atari/ST at the time. Peter Gannon offered to help me transfer them to the PC so I bought the DOS 5/Win 3.1 computer and would transfer them to the PC. Then when BiaB came out for Windows, I started doing everything on the PC and transferring them to the Atari and Mac.
BiaB has come a long way from those early days. Feature after feature have been added, making it quite a complex program. I don't use every feature, I don't use the Real Tracks, I don't use the Soloist, I don't use the Melodist, I don't use the Drum Window, I don't use the Notation (I have Encore) but I do work on the Notation screen a bit, and there are many others I don't use. But that's no problem, they are there for others to enjoy.
I do talk about the features I use and love.
BiaB rules because of the hard work, dedication, insight, and sheer genius of Peter Gannon and crew. Whether you use the features I use or not, I hope you enjoy the product.
And I always welcome opposing viewpoints, that's what debates are all about. I'll put up arguments to support my viewpoint, you put arguments to support your viewpoint, and we may not convert each other, on the other hand, we might also learn something.
But let's leave personal attacks and cheap shots out of debates. They take the fun out of a debate.
Everything is 'engineering'. There are trade-offs to be made. RTs give you more realistic tone, MIDI tracks give you more editing power for personal expression. Karaoke tracks give you a 'like the record' backing track but they often have singers who aren't in your duo in the background and those fade out endings (something I never do live). Compressors can make your tracks sound louder, but they minimize the dynamic expression of the music. And it's not only in music. If you want great gas mileage, you have to sacrifice size, performance or both. Solar electricity is free but it doesn't work well at night. Cell phones are convenient but tend to work not as well inside most houses.
All the trade-offs give us a chance to debate things and help each other out with the benefit of our experience.
The negative posts here really weren't all that bad, I've had worse  and I intend to remain a member of this community for a long time. I will debate the benefits of MIDI until something better comes along, but that doesn't mean I'm telling you that your way is wrong. There is more than one right way to make music. I also tout the benefits of MIDI on sites that have nothing to do with BiaB so just because I sell BiaB products, I don't think I'm being out of line to promote the kind of music I'm passionate about making. Perhaps it will help someone who has less experience than I do.
I remember a long time ago, I was playing sax in a band and I asked a sax player in another band what a sequence was. He explained it to me and turned me on to a magazine called Electronics Musician. Way before that, I was 18 years old playing in a band in a club that had two bands - the white band and the black band. When we played our break song the other band would come up and as one person picked up his instrument, the guy in the other band would stop. Me? I walked across the stage and sat in with the black band. The sax player (I wish I could remember his name) was old and grey haired (I'm getting there now) and he showed me a number of sax tips, including how to growl into the saxophone. I asked him "How to you get that sound?" and he was kind enough to show me.
That's the kind of musician I want to be. The kind who helps another with the benefit of my experience. The guys who showed me stuff are further along the road than I am so there isn't much I can show them to return their kindness, so the way to honor their generosity is to share my experience with others who haven't walked the same path as I for as long as I have.
But if you think karaoke tracks and stringing loops together in a DAW are the best way for you to make music, go for it. There is more than one way to make music. If we compete for a gig, I hope my way wins.
I worked 6 gigs this week and got rained out on the 7th (it was outdoors with a rain date in a couple of weeks). Life is good. I do what I love and get paid for it.
If it was easy, anyone could do it, and people wouldn't pay me to have so much fun!!!
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I think there's another interpretation to "Notes"' story that's got nothing to do with the quality of backing tracks.
The perception of "karaoke" is that anyone can get a backing track. No "musician" skill required.
With MIDI, even though it may not be "live", the assumption is that the musician probably created the sequence himself. That is, the only reason they are using MIDI is because they can't clone themselves.
If there are instruments being played live, the assumption is that they're really being played, and not just mimed. Not always true, but people put more value on that, and react negatively when they think they've been "fooled" by a performer.
So I wonder if the initial reaction that "Notes" got had to do with perceived value of the performer's skill, and little to do with the "quality" of the backing tracks.
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"And Kevin, I remember BiaB for DOS - I hated DOS."
Yeah I think most people did.
As for me I loved DOS, being blind that operating system worked better for me then Windows does.
Back then my speech software would work with 95 percent of the programs out there.
Now days a lot of the time I have to tweak my speech package to work with new software I install.
Some times that works great and other times I have to settle for less then good results.
Not really complaining just noting the irony.
And like you said there's a trade off. I may not be able to use every program out there because of the graphical interface, but I can do so much more with the computer then was possible back in the DOSS days.
Hell I'm just thankful I can use the computer at all.
Tim
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Hi Folks,
I was just browsing the Norton music site and I didn't realise that Mr Norton has such a high profile,
From his site,
"Bob's contributions to contemporary American music are recognized by his inclusion in the Marquis Publications' Who's Who in the South and Southwest (1993 to present) Who's Who in America (1996 to present), Who's Who in Entertainment, and Who's Who in the World (1996 to present). Bob is also included in the International Biographical Centre of Cambridge England's Men Of Achievement publication, their Dictionary of International Biography, Edition XXIII, and Outstanding People of the 20th Century. In addition to all this, he will be featured in the next edition of International Who's Who of Information Technology and Stratmore's Who's Who"
I think that we are indeed privileged to have Mr Norton among our ranks and He does do excellent band in a box disks.
Regards
Jan
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Hmmm a fair amount of nonsense already on this thread.
Let me add some of my own!
Is Bob ‘Notes’ Norton generally ‘a good thing’ or ‘a bad thing’?
The former. Yes, he has been known to use this site to promote his own products but he has also provided reams of useful information quite unrelated to music software.
Why do I find myself ‘still’ using MIDI rather than Real Tracks?
- because this is what I learnt with originally and it stuck
- because I have neither the time nor the finances to upgrade my computer equipment
-because (unlike some of my fellow forum members) I have a full time job and a band and a family to take care of (have to revise the order there for the final version of this post!) before I even boot up my home music station. I have a time budget of zero hours, zero minutes for choosing, installing and configuring an alternative to my MIDI-based system.
- because I like the fact that I can save a MIDI track in a few seconds and not have my PC sound like its about to take off.
- because if it ain’t broke…
What is karaoke?
To the general member of an audience, non initiated in things musical and DAW-related, there is a vague possibility that he/she will distinguish between two things:
- (1) music which is being played entirely live, in real time, by musicians with instruments who are actually present
- (2) music – however it has been generated – which has somehow been recorded before the performance and is being played back.
Most will not be all that bothered whether they are being presented with (1) or (2). None (as in not one) will either know about or be interested in the difference between MIDI-generated backing tracks vs audio loop generated backing tracks.
Marc
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Some very good points there, the average lay person who knows virtually nothing about music who see a duo on stage will probably think they are playing everything live, whereas in fact quite a bit of the performance will be backing tracks, and couldn't care a rats ass as long as they are having a good time, and the music sounds reasonably ok.
axey
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Quote:
Most will not be all that bothered whether they are being presented with (1) or (2).
According to this single point of anecdotal evidence, wealthy yacht-owning older folk in one particular spot of Florida do.
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Wow. Who's who? Who knew? Horton? He heard a who. Boo hoo. I'm not in the who's who. I figured out most of the who's on our county list were as dead as my grandad. I'll be there soon. Dead that is, not on the who's who.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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