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I am new to Computer recording, but would like to start..
Up until now I have been building my tracks in BIAB, rendering & saving as individual wave tracks, then importing them into my Korg D3200 DAW, then adding vocals, instruments, harmony vocals, etc..
My question is, I see so many users creating tracks in BIAB, then exporting them to Sonar X$, X1, & to Pro Tools, & Reaper. WHY?? Are they so much better than Real Band.? Is Real Band not capable of delivering a finished product? Is it because it's too hard to use?, not enough effects?
I have the latest Version 2014, of BiaB/ Real Band.
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I use RealBand a lot, and i own Reaper, Sonar X-1, Multitrackstudio, and Studio one v2.
Realband is very capable of completing a project. There are a few features that some of these other programs have that RB does not, but the basic stuff is there. as far as effects there are some great ones in RB, but there are a ton out there that will work with it as well.
I did a project last year, and the track bed came from BiaB, and i moved it over to Sonar, Reaper, and RB, then i added several tracks to it vocals, guitar parts that i wanted to play, and mixed the song. the end results were very telling to me, not only was the RB version just as good, but in my opinion was the best of the three.
What you will find is that people work where their workflow is familiar. If they started in a cakewalk product they will be more comfortable there.
Lastly the features that are maybe not in RB, or are not quite as polished are few anymore, and RB has things that none of these others can even touch.
A few things RB needs, one is better VSTi capability, there are a few VSTis that it does not handle well. These are the ones that require a tempo lock to fully function, like drum modules that have creation or brain function.
Also RB does not have a rich comping to take system, like say a sonar, cubase, or presonus studio one does. But you can do several takes with looping and mix and match them. you can use the new node based volume automation to turn one the parts of takes you want then bounce down.
While volume automation got a big upgrade this year, i hope they add FX and panning automation next time.
Honestly if they fix the VSTi timing lock issue, add some type of comping feature that resembles the one in Presonus studio one, and add more to the automation, i would most likely never crack those other programs open again.
Here is my advice, you are new to this, and it will take you a while to even tap the features that are in RB, let alone hit up against any thing lacking in it. It plays very nice with BiaB, and will give you a great finsihed product. Use it, you own it, if and when you ever feel like it is not doing what you want buy another DAW to handle that need. No one builds a house with only a hammer and a saw.
Last edited by Robh; 12/17/13 08:57 AM.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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I use Sonar X3c as my DAW. Why? Because I am very familiar with Cakewalk DAWs and it fits my workflow. That is probably do to the fact that I have used Cakewalk products for many years now. This is my main reason to using Sonar. I would rather make music with a DAW that I know than to learn another DAW, i.e. I don’t have a lot of time and I am a slow learner.
But I say to everyone who purchases BiaB if you don’t have a favorite DAW then by all means use RealBand. You already have it. RB can and has produced music as good as any other DAW. You can never tell what DAW was used when you are listening to music----period!
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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The Korg D3200 is an awesome hardware DAW, I'm envious. As others have said RB is a compentent software DAW in its own right but team it with BIAB and they match well with any software DAW on the market. Every daw has its own claim to fame but each has its own weaknesses too.
The most important factors for any daw are familarity and developing a workflow process that work for you. The more you use BIAB and RealBand the more comfortable you will become with them and the better your workflow will be. Since you are not familar with any software daw try the one you have and see how it works for you. If it don't work out you can try another but you will be able to take what you've learned and apply it to the next daw but don't be surprised if you find you like RB better than your second choice because you've grown used to it.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Johnny,
I use BIAB to create song, RB to dress it up and Reaper to finish it off. For a long time, I was a Cakewalk Sonar user but I changed to Reaper.
My reason for using Reaper was that it allowed for greater production control using envelopes. Now that the latest Realband has nodes (the same thing as envelopes, essentially), I could do what I want in Realband.
At the end of the day, if it sounds good, it doesn't matter how you get there.
Rob's post above is excellent. Personally, I'd recommend getting used to RB before looking at anything else. It may well be that you don't need anything else.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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I also use Reaper and I really like it. I have tried to use RealBand but found it to be a bit clunky and slow compared to the sleeker design of Reaper. However, with the updated interface and the ability to generate RealTracks on a bar-by-bar basis I will probably give it another try.
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John, RB is clunky compared to Reaper or any top flight DAW. Reaper I never really got into, even though I bought the license. To my work flow there is far to much fiddling around. But my oh my the routing possibilities!
Give RB a good look, it is very powerful, but in a simple way.
You will always have Reaper for final polishing.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Thanks all, I'm going to give Real Band a go. I have a Presonus USB Audiobox, which I will use.. I fooled a bit with Real Band, Mixcraft & Reaper this evening.
The thing I like about Real Band & Mixcraft so far is when I imported a Midi file into it, These 2 programs put everything into seperate tracks, & in some Midis even broke the drums down, snare, crash, bass drum on separate tracks.. When I imported the same file into Reaper, it broke it down, but wouldn't play them. I guess I have to import some kind of sound, & is more complicated for me, at least as far as Midi goes. I guess it will play Wave files, though I haven't tried them yet...
If I can get used to Real Band & don't run into any latency problems, I'll stay with it , at least for the near future. I read a lot where latency seems to be a problem with computer recording. I don't have any latency concerns with the Korg Stand alone recorder.
I really do like my Korg & am used to it, just would like one less piece of equipment to set up if it works..
Thanks to all again & that explains to me why there are preferences. At first I thought it was because Real Band fell under an entry level, & inferior DAW.
Last edited by johnnyo34; 12/17/13 11:23 PM.
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Johnnyo34, latency is not caused by a DAW it is caused by the soundcard and its drivers. If you run into latency problems just list your soundcard and it’s drivers here and you will get a lot of help.
Although I do not use RB I have played with it and let me assure you that it is not an entry level or inferior DAW. It just has a work flow that I am not comfortable with do to my many years of using Cakewalk’s DAW.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Great, that's good to know about latency.. Never to old to learn, huh?? I appreciate your help.. It's going to be a totally new world & learning experience for me.. don't know why I held off so long, other than I was so comfortable with the Korg.. Just save my tracks as separate wave files from BIAB, import them into the Korg onto separate tracks, & I'm good to go. But the Korg won't do Midi. I guess I could import the Midi files into Real Band, render them into separate wave files, (if that can be done), then to Korg. But if I can get comfortable with Real Band, it'll save a bunch of work & time.
I find there are lots of Midi files out there I can use for country & fiddle tracks.. & by importing them to separate tracks, I can work with them.
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Some of you will already know that I do everything in PowerTracks, which is pretty much RealBand without RTs and I've used PT for years, despite having Cubase, Logic, Reaper and Protools.
If you're going to give RealBand a go, then I would suggest getting to know the MIXER window. A lot of people do most things from the TRACKS window, but the MIXER is a brilliant feature when you get to know it.
For a start, you don't need to construct it, or set up templates - straight out of the box it has 48 stereo tracks, 8 routable effects busses and sixteen sub-groups. From here you can automate volume, pan setting and effects sends for every channel and do it in real time whilst you audition the track. In addition, you have insert points for multiple effects on every channel, buss and group.
I agree with all those who pointed out that we all have preferences when it comes to workflow and that these will largely dictate which DAW you use, but if you're just starting out I'd certainly say give RB a shot.
ROG.
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Thanks ROG gonna give it a whirl.. Probably this weekend or right after Christmas, as my boss has lots of things she's got planned for me to do for the festive season...
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Great advice about using the mixer window for much of your work. You should find it's familiar to you since it mimics mixer controls you are used to.
One feature you'll discover is using a bus (somtimes called a group or sub). Larger mixers have this feature but I haven't seen it included on any hardware daw. Say you have multiple tracks that have some commonality to them like background vocals or complementry guitars. Once you have their sound levels, panning and frequencies set up as you desire you can group them together into a bus and use a single set of controls for the group. Any effect applied to the group is applied to each track within the group. RealBand has 16 Busses.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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WOW, talk about a learning experience, & a great forum & knowledgeable users..
I've been spending most of the time on the BIAB forum. I can see where I'm going to have to get up sooner, to get to spend equal time here...lol..
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Never liked Mixcraft, seems like a toy to me, still it has some nice features, but nothing RB does not have and then some. Reaper to me is far too much work, it does have the most flexable routing in the business, but you have way to many options to fiddle with to get something done. I am sure that in the end you can template up and get their with ease, but for me it was too much work and the great features are too hidden in multiple layers.
Cakewalk was my first love, and i still have a fondness for it, but there are a few things i don't like.
Multitrackstudio is the most solid robust, and simple of the real powerful DAWs, i have really loved working in it, still there are a few things in the workflow i did not like overall, but would fall back to it , if i needed to pound out a few projects quickly. The plugins are top notch by the way, simple and clean.
Realband is my fav, sure there is still a few naggy issues for me, as we have discussed many times here (please fix the tempo lock issue), and add panning and FX to the node system. I would add a toggle button to toggle thru those three making them different colors, and change the drag system to open the automation to a click a button instead. Just smoother and less fiddling. If RealBand had timing lock on VSTi i do not think i would open another DAW.
Think about it, no other DAW does all the following.
Acid loop generation
Realtracks
Realdrums
Midi tracks
Audio tracks
Style creation
generate by bar
super midi tracks
If you add to that the ability to use VSTis like jamstix and the like to their fullest ability. And add to that again a little bit more on the automation, what is missing.
Really only one thing (expand the 48 track limit)
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Robh you got this program nailed.. I don't think I'll live long enough to conquer what you already know.. I am not familiar with VSTi's, so there's a lot of groundwork I have to do, & terminologies I'll have learn, & now that you mention it I did buy MTS about 3 or 4 yrs ago, on the recommendation of a friend. I had a recording with pops on the vocals on the P's, & I used MTS to minimize the pops.. Worked good. I got a letter recently to upgrade , but I didn't because I didn't use it enough..
Reaper for me is out of the question, & instead of learning several DAWS I'm going to concentrate on Real Band. I'm not familiar with Acid Loops, or Jamstix, so as soon as the holidays are over I'm going to start reading, & more reading, but I'm looking at 80 in Feb. so I'm going to look at a lot of shortcuts, more in the line of neceseties to get something resembling a decent recording. I will be here looking for help, & Lord knows I'll need lots of it...
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Hey John you have said RB is a little clunky. I would like to know a couple specifics on what it does that is clunky. I would like to use it since I am 600 in debt now from buying some new things for my studio. So I would like to try RB out for a while. Though I am going around and checking out those 500 dollar DAWS like Sonar X3, Cubase 7.5, Pro Tools. I am just looking at them just for kicks. But if I was a rich man and I had a few hundred extra I might want to buy one even before I give RB a try. Why? Well it kind of seems like a freebie. Even though I paid 700 for my audiophile BiaB it seems that RB is kind of thrown in free. Then you are giving it a clunky complex for it which doesn't help lol. But it could be clunky. I just want to know what it does that seems clunky. Do you open something up and it takes too much time?
Also I think they should rename Real Band. Because it clashes with Band in a Box. We already have Bandin BiaB. I am not sure what else to name it off hand. But I think there could be a contest. But maybe everyone loves the name RealBand. Or maybey they should just treat BiaB and Real Band as one? Integrate them. Now we can use RB instead of BiaB? By putting the Real Tracks on each track? If this is true it might be better than how BiaB does it. I will have to check into that
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Sly, in general I find PG software to be behind the standard for GUI. The 2014 release definitely improves on this but it is still much more difficult to me to use than modern software. So first off, I'd say the GUI is a bit clunky. Next, the few times I used RealBand and tried to load my BIAB songs I found it to be very slow to load. Now that is probably because it can regenerate everything, bar by bar, but typically, when I am mixing, I no longer want any generation so the delays made it feel clunky to me.
Now, with that said, I am very interested in the ability to generate/regenerate RealTracks bar by bar because BIAB does not always get everything like I like it and I hate losing one section of my section because I am regenerating another section. So, I anticipate that, as I get more experienced, I will add RealBand into my overall work flow.
But, I cannot ever see me using RealBand as my DAW. Reaper is faster and easier to use for me. So, my work flow will include BIAB and RealBand to generate backing tracks and as soon as I get the tracks I need I will move over to my DAW (Reaper) and bring the BIAB/RB tracks together with my recorded tracks and mix it all up.
BTW, Reaper is only $60 or you can use the full-featured trial version as long as you want with no limitations. Plus it has an enormous user community. As I have said before, it is super easy to compare RealBand and Reaper. You already have RealBand and you can download the unlimited trial of Reaper for free. Check them both out and pick the one you like the best!
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Some of what we call clunky is just that it is not quite as polished in some areas. But take a look at the post by ROG, he owns all the biggies as do I but i use RB instead. It does as john said take time to open a BiaB file in RB, as it has to generate all those tracks, but remember Reaper or Sonar or any other DAW can't do that at all, you have to render to audio to open the files in those. ands you lose the ability to generate other tracks, and parts of tracks. Try RB for a while you might find it really works well.
The biggest mistake i made for several years was DAW jumping, in the search to find the perfect program, it does not exist. Get familiar with one platform, and dig in. When and if you ever outgrow that program then look elsewhere for a tool.
Last edited by Robh; 12/19/13 08:21 AM.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
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The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
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This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
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