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Hi All, So this gal who lives down the hallway asked me if I could put music to some lyrics she was working on for her church. She doesn't play an instrument so she sang it acapella for me and I figured out the chords. I made a few lyric and musical suggestions and then put down some basic tracks. She sang a guide vocal. I added all the BIAB tracks and some of my own guitar and a really cool church choir type ending. I thought it sounded pretty good considering she had come in with an melody in her head. But she really hated it and said it doesn't sound like whats on the RADIO! Yeah no kidding. I have garage band and its not like I was getting paid yet I put in many hours on this tune! It was a favor! So much for Be the Love! Anyway, I tried to make the best of her guide vocal. Despite her not liking it, I think its not bad. But then again maybe I'm too close to it. Any second opinions on this one? https://soundcloud.com/jeff-bonilla/be-the-love-1Be the Love My Heart beats to your call oh Lord. My soul thirsts for the truth in your word. My spirit sings for a chance to rejoice My being yearns for the sound of your voice. And all your people are awaiting to feel the joy of their awakening as love and peace overcome walls and worlds betrayed again stand tall. Chorus So be the Light Be the truth Be the faith that’s been renewed Be the hope for a better tomorrow Be the strong for the weak Be the shelter to all who seek Just be the love, Be the love. Love is not cruel it’s patient and kind It does not envy or boast with pride Takes no delight in evil or wrongs Love always trusts and rejoices in song. And all your people are awaiting to feel the joy of their awakening as love and peace overcome walls and worlds betrayed again stand tall. Chorus So be the Light Be the truth Be the faith that’s been renewed Be the hope for a better tomorrow Be the strong for the weak Be the shelter to all who seek Just be the love, Be the love. Bridge: It’s in our hearts to love so, don’t be afraid to let go. Outro: Choir sings Be The Love. Be The Love.
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No bad. It's good. I like it. Hiroshi
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Hi Jeff,
You've done a terrific job! I enjoyed the listen. A great deal of planning and thought has gone into your arrangement. It's easy to appreciate that much time must have been spent in getting this together. It's a shame that your work was not appreciated.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Nice arrangement. Collaborations can be very hard. It can be hard for someone to convey what they are hearing in their mind when they are not a musician. Your experience sounds similar to one I had. My friend refers to himself as a songwriter when in fact, he simply is a lyricist. He is a good one too. He pays hundreds of dollars to have online studios produce his demos. He explains to them how he envisions his song in a "in the style of" manner of some popular singer or song. The online studio creates the melody, chord progression and choice of instruments, provide a good singer and creates his demos. He is always thrilled and says they created exactly how the song sounded to him in his head. It's all very generic. I have created demos with BIAB for several of his lyrics and he has always hated them. He likes originals and covers I've created with BIAB and acknowledges they are as professional sounding as what he gets online. He realizes he could save hundreds of dollars and create more demos than he can afford to have done online. We simply cannot collaborate musically.
You created a nice contemporary Christian sound and production. However, I can tell you from personal experience that when you find yourself suggesting musical and lyric changes, you are not on the same page with your lyricist.
To me, with this song, the music is like an anthem whereas the lyrics read to be more inward and personal. As far as what you've presented here on the forum, I found the lyrics to be the weak link of the song. It lacks cohesion from verse to verse and reads more of a campfire, guitar strumming sing a long. The first verse is all about 'me' whereas the theme of the song is about everyone. The repetition of several verses is weak writing. The love is cruel verse does not fit with the rest of the verses.
I responded because you asked for opinions and I connected with your situation because I've encountered similar circumstances. The musical production is the highlight of the song and your hours and time spent are appreciated. My intent is not to bum you out or hurt your or your friends feelings. There is a lot of potential here but more work is needed. You and she will have to decide if it's worth the work or the risk.
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The song is pretty good.
As far as her comment that it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio..... she's right. Now... the question is WHY doesn't it sound like she thinks it should?
Listening on computer speakers: Then I switched to my cans.
The lead vocal is too far back in the mix in some places. Without the lyrics, it would be hard to understand the message in the song. Cans made it a bit easier to hear the lyrics. Use envelopes to bring her vocal up in the places where she's not belting it out.
There's a heavy lo/mid presence in the EQ curve on this song.... lots of bass and mids. Makes it kind of thick sounding... It has a sonic oppressiveness to it for me.
It also sounds like the compressors are working really hard on this. What level of compression are you using because this sounds really compressed to me. Back off, lower the levels and let this breathe. Let it have dynamics.
All of those are the easy fixes. Now to discuss the harder stuff to fix and get right.
So did you kind of sit down with her before you started and ask her to describe or play you some examples of modern christian music to let you know what she was envisioning for the song's style? Modern christian music has a really wide range of styles as you know. If she was thinking it should have been more "indy" sounding or contemporary and you give her a groove like you did, it won't even be close to what she was hearing in her head so of course she won't like it. PG has a ton of styles but there's no way they can emulate all of the styles and keep up with what's new out there.
So if that's the case.... you would probably need to work with some live musicians who are tuned in to the newer styles being played in the churches these days. You can still use BB tracks, but get a live guitar player and especially a drummer because I haven't heard any BB/RT that nail the modern church praise group styles on these instruments..... not like some of the bands I've heard. Sometimes you gotta think outside of the box.... in a literal manner.
All that said, I think the song is good, perhaps in need of some edits.... but essentially a good song. I would eliminate the chorus outtro there at the end. It seemed, to me, out of character with the song. I would also trim the prechorus in half.... 2 lines and hit the chorus.
BTW:..... the lady sings well. Very good voice. Is she on the PW team at her church?
Yep, you have a good song..... figure out what needs to be fixed and how to make it happen. I could hear this being played in churches and on the radio....
So, that's my thoughts on this... get it right.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Always a difficult situation. The music production was well done to my ears. I agree that the musical style and the lyrics do not compliment each other. It sounds as though she must have done the vocals to the track that you produced, so I'm wondering why she didn't like it at the time.
The vocals are back and weak in the mix for sure, but her vocal styling does not fit well with this type of track. It calls for a singer who can really belt it out in my opinion. Not being a musician herself, I can understand why she thinks a weak performance can be turned into gold. Hey look at Taylor Swift.....LOL
Not getting paid is the worst part of the whole deal.
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these are just opinions since you asked . . .
Several have stated on here that the vocals are too far back in the mix . . . I agree
scratch or production, the vocals have to be the main part in worship - they have to come through and not struggle to do so more than any other audio in the song . . . after all, they are the message - they are the proclamation
besides the mix, harmonies on "be the light" and "be the love" would stick out nicely . . .
they would also reiterate your song title and purpose (lend to the hook)
for personal preference, I would make the drums in the chorus drive a bit more - not fills necessarily, you could even use a floor tom along with bass drum to accentuate . . . but something that takes it up just a notch above the verse to say" hey this is the important part"
of course, songs like this are near and dear to my heart and your lyrics convey this most important command well . . .
You have a good song here . . . needs some polish and it will be a good one
the break and build at 2:56 is good but there is no build out of it . . . it would seem to accentuate what you have done and are trying to accomplish if the drums build a lil and add some tension
The electric guitar part at 2:25 sticks out to me - I wonder if a cleaner lead (like a fender through a jazz chorus)wouldn't be more what you are trying to accomplish sonically?
the outro is louder and bigger sounding than the earlier parts of the song . . . may be as simple as bringing some of the extra vox down in the mix . . .
hope this has been helpful . .
Blessings!
Last edited by Even If; 01/22/16 06:27 AM.
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Hi Jeff.
First of all let me say that I think you did a great job. It's never easy putting chords to a melody, because there are so many combinations which will fit, but I like what you've done here. Maybe it's not the style she expected, or maybe she's not happy with her own singing, but there's no denying that the track works as you've produced it.
I never cease to be amazed at what people expect for nothing. My view is that when she starts paying, then she can start to complain.
ROG.
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Jeff, you did a lot of work, hopefully had some fun and learned something new while doing this. Time making music is never really wasted. You made a fine arrangement. Personally, I don't think it fits this song with the intent of her vocal that I hear in her melody notes and phrasing. I think Herb is spot on about her probably hearing a more indie or indie pop sound in her head even though her vocal chops lean more traditional which is why I used the word intent. Also the choir ending is drowning her out and may be overkill, I personally love choirs but I don't hear much of that on the Contemporary Christian station I listen to these days. I think when you're working with a singer who writes and has music in her head it's important to keep her involved in every step of the arrangement - is this what you're feeling/hearing kind of thing and especially asking for "who" she's wanting to sound like because she is definitely hearing some group or singer and has already bonded to that sound and vibe in her head. Otherwise like Charlie and Herb already mentioned you won't wind up on the same page. When I was a young songwriter, I tried a collab with a friend's boyfriend who was in another state. When I later met him in person he wouldn't open his mouth to sing or play a guitar in my presence because months before I had been honest and told him I didn't like his arrangement of that song of mine. It was really a sad thing but I couldn't help that I just didn't relate to what he did. I wasn't trying to insult his talent and had said as much many times. In reality I thought he was a very talented guy but he was so insulted to the core that I stopped going around them. Since then over the years I've had times where someone I was working with didn't like my arrangement. So I've been on both sides of that fence. You can always refuse to do anything for anybody else unless you get paid for it and they still might not like it so good luck with that approach.  I don't think she's trying to be an ingrate. She's just not hearing her song the same way you heard it. Don't take it personal. There's no right or wrong, there's only taste and it's just a song.
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I think you did a great job with the song. She is a good singer as well. Kudos very difficult way to put the song together..
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Thank you all for your great feedback. Definitely some things to think about.
This is a great forum.
And I'm continually blown away by the quality of songs that everyone creates with BIAB. Lots of fun.
Jeff
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Reading back over what I wrote earlier -
(I never cease to be amazed at what people expect for nothing. My view is that when she starts paying, then she can start to complain.)
Josie made me feel I might sound a bit harsh and mercenary, so let me explain.
If someone does something for nothing, it's like a gift. If you're given a gift, say for a birthday, it's not polite to say you hate it. You say it's nice and immediately put it in a drawer and forget about it. With this song, I would have expected the girl to say "how nice" and then either give up on the project, or pay a professional studio to do it, where she could be more precise about what she wanted.
I actually do quite a bit of my work for free and most people either like it, or are polite enough to say they like it. However, some years ago I was asked if I would write and transcribe a piano part to a song that someone had written and this was to be a favour, or for free. I said I would happily oblige but that I was very busy and it might take a while before I could get round to it. After two days, the guy rang me to see if it was ready. A further two days passed and another phone call. I said I would get round to it as soon as I had time. At the end of the week the guy rang me and had a real rant because his music wasn't ready. See where I'm coming from with this?
By all means do favours for people, but don't always expect thanks.
ROG.
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To expand on Josie and Rog's point. There is a bit of an illusion to the sound we can produce with BIAB. Our songs can sound like a record -- a record that was produced in a studio. In their minds, people create a picture from what they know as laymen to how a studio recording is made.
Two things come into play when we are dealing with friends or acquaintances helping them with their song.
First, because of what they imagine a recording studio to be, they undervalue our work when our 'studio' is a computer program in our bedroom and does not meet the expectation of their minds eye studio.
Second, even though I could easily match the quality of the work my friend was willing to pay hundreds of dollars for, I believe his perception that his song was being recorded in a real studio rather than a software program (which by the way, he has no idea how or where his project is actually recorded) - creates a quality gap in his mind between their final product and mine.
I am of the opinion that it's better for me to factor in the illusion that the quality of a BIAB production creates in someone's mind. I play CD's of BIAB playlist in my car, when people hear the songs, they seem to have the impression it's a studio recording. They never ask about mic's, recorders, a huge mixer or instruments. If they ask anything about how it was recorded (rare occurrence) I tell them I have a home studio for a hobby.
My point is that disregarding the complexity of what many of us do with the BIAB program, the fact that it is computer generated with what appears ease by us, contrasts with peoples imagination of a quality studio recording and works against our being accepted to an equal quality of their illusion.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Jeff,
I don't listen to this type music, so can't address whether "it works" or "is right".
But... I liked it. (though I did not care for the "sound" of the outro).
fj
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Jeff, I like the arrangement. I think there is to much processing on the vocal. The entire song is being squashed badly by compression when the drums kick in. I think if you address those two areas first you will be on your way to a much better mix. There is a lot of distortion on the choir also. It is a good track don't give up on it -fix it. Tom
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I really like the song!! I think you did a nice job on the arrangement. There does seem to be some distortion (listening on computer speakers), and a bit of warbly (not sure if that's a word) sound. Like Herb says, I think the vocal needs to come up. Nice job!! Take care. Greg
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Jeff, I took a listen and I believe that everything that has been said to this point should give you enough information to understand the delicacies that are involved when dealing with your particular circumstance.
We all have opinions and music of course is one of those areas where we all find ourselves gravitating to those who are of our own like mind. Some are more broad than others and some are very narrow minded. What I am saying is that we can't please all the people all the time or even some of the people at anytime. But what I heard from you was very good (with the areas mentioned above having been fixed). You do a handle on using BIAB and I look forward to hearing more from you.
Sonny
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Hey Jeff,
There are a gazillion Praise and Worship styles in BIAB that would mimic any church sound today and I know because I play lead guitar in a very uptempo contemporary Praise and Worship Band. Go into style picker and use the search bar.
One is:
Style is _SHINSOL.STY (Praise&Worship Shining w Gt Solo)
(For ones without solos, just type Praise and Worship Shining and Listen to them All. Pick the non-solo version or one you like the best for overall feel.)
Example:
RealTracks in style: 1255:Bass, Electric, PopShiningA-B Ev 120
RealTracks in style: 1264:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm PopShiningA-B Ev 120
RealTracks in style: 1259:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm PopShiningRockA-B Ev 120
RealTracks in style: 1260:Guitar, Electric, Soloist PopShining Ev 120
RealDrums in style: PraiseWorshipShine^10-a:Sidestick, HiHat , b:Snare, HiHat Kick2
*******************
Or, you could go a "Pop Ballad" route with something like this:
Style is _PJONPBA.STY (PopBalladPiano & Ac.Guitar[85RS])
RealTracks in style: ~701:Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesSync Ev 085
RealTracks in style: 1728:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm PopBalladJohn Ev 085
RealTracks in style: ~362:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 085
RealDrums in style: NashvilleEven8^2-a:Sidestick, HiHat , b:Snare, HiHat
*******************
This is for singer songerwriter type stuff.
It sounds like she is looking for Modern Praise Rock (read Hillsong) and for that Pop Shining styles get really close.
Look for Power Push drums too.
After you get CLOSE--then you have to think of adding a guitar part of your own, or maybe a piano to give it the melodic flavor.
But essentially, she has to decide what decade she wants to sound like and what genre. You could literally show her hundreds of styles in the BIAB catalogue and ask her what is closest.
The lyrics don't seem to be 2016, they seem a little more old school, which is awesome, I love old school. New school praise and worship has fewer words, though, and a lot more repetition, and kind of an "aching" quality to it--against tight drums and U2 sounding guitars. Old school P&W seems to be about cheerful praise and major chords. New school P&W seems to be more about pain and aching and crying out and minor chords. I like old school better to tell you the truth.
Anyway, I think you did a great job, but if I were to bet, I would bet she is looking for the Pop Praise Shining Vibe. Listen to all those styles and tell me what you think. No need to worry about the mastering with these. These styles are virtually pre-mastered.
I would be interested to hear the outcome.
Cheers.
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I just thought of one more thing that might help.
BIAB and Real Band have a great function called audio chord wizard. It is not always perfect, but it is close.
Next time, you can record a click track, or better yet just generate a Real drum track in the groove you want for 98 bars or so (enough to cover 3 minutes or however long the song is). Then have the vocalist simply sing the verse, chorus and bridge melody a capella over this beat, once you pick the right tempo.
Then turn this into a wav. and open it up in BIAB and let BIAB analyze it. It will not always be perfect, but it will get you in the ball park.
For example, if you are in the key of G, she might sing an E note and BIAB might tell you it is an E chord. We know if it is in the key of G, the chord is probably C, or em7.
There won't be much else happening in a pop song but I, iim7, iiim7 (or iii, sometimes), IV, V, V7, vim (or vim7) and I. I am sure you already know this, but Gospel uses a lot of VII dim7ths and flat VIIs so be on the look out for those. V dim7s, III dim7s, and occasionally II7s also pop up in gospel choruses for extreme dramatic tension so be on the look put for those too.
Once you have a feel for what is going on just plug in chords for verse chorus bridge until it sounds right, then save that. Make another copy. Open copy. Use song form dialogue and build the song. (Song form dialogue is the best invention since the light bulb. Make it your best friend.)
When all is done, invite friend or collaborator back over and say is this it????
If it is not quite right, tweak it on the spot. Wrong key, no problem!!! Make a copy again and transpose it. (Saving all takes is a good idea.)
If it is "it" but the style isn't right, go to style picker and start getting used to the 3,000 bands out there. All you are looking for are 4 good tracks. Bass, drums, acoustic (or piano) and electric rhythm. 4 tracks are a bed. Anything other than than is icing and can and should come later--preferably with some live playing on some parts.
If you get used to this workflow with people who can't play or chart, it will save you millions of years of grief, trust me.
Hope this makes sense. It kind of if what BIAB was made for--or I should say, BIAB is brilliant at this. A true God send.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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