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I have been away on holidays since 25 June, and just returned last night.
Considering that his last hit was quite a while ago, I am somewhat surprised at the tributes to his genius, and point out that if he was truly as wonderful as "they" say, then a mere 19 or so posts on this topic is surprisingly few. Or are many of you voting by sitting on your hands? I recall watching the Jackson Five on TV, and can only say, "my how his appearance has changed". Today I happened on a quote by someone that is not in the music field. These are not my words and not my stance or position on the person (however, I believe the last sentence sums up his life):
"It’s fascinating to follow the coverage of Michael Jackson’s death, but especially the lavish tributes to his “genius” and general wonderfulness. He was, in fact, a monster and an apt reflection of America’s extreme cultural confusion. He was a distillation of the lies America tells itself. He was infantile, grandiose, horrifying, and probably dangerous. His “accomplishments” as a grown man amounted to little more than a half dozen popular songs. The arc of his life may have been tragic, but it was tragedy of his own making. His sudden end brings to mind a remark Gore Vidal made upon hearing about the death of Truman Capote: “Good career move.”"
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The above quote appears to have originated in the "Daily Grunt" section of James Howard Kunstler's blog. He has much more to say on the subject.
I am NOT providing a link as the title of his blog is guaranteed to offend many. If you can get past that, you may be interested in further comment on this and other matters.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
The above quote appears to have originated in the "Daily Grunt" section of James Howard Kunstler's blog. He has much more to say on the subject.
I am NOT providing a link as the title of his blog is guaranteed to offend many. If you can get past that, you may be interested in further comment on this and other matters.
Ryszard:
You are absolutely correct, and for the same reason as you, I quoted rather than linked to the comment.
I posted this somewhat controversial comment not to run down MJ, but to indicate that he was not universally respected and admired, and had many detractors for various reasons. I suspect we often tend to elevate a person after they die to a level that they may not wholly deserve, and my personal opinion is that MJ falls into this category. When was his last ground-breaking song - 1982?
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Give the guy a break. He was an abused child!
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Quote:
"He was a distillation of the lies America tells itself. He was infantile, grandiose, horrifying, and probably dangerous. <snip> The arc of his life may have been tragic, but it was tragedy of his own making. His sudden end brings to mind a remark Gore Vidal made upon hearing about the death of Truman Capote: “Good career move.”"
Was he talking about Elvis?
(What songs did Elvis pen?)
DTuna
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Kunstler is wrong about the source of oil prices.
At the time oil prices were rising supply was higher than demand. Prices should have fallen. Enter Goldman-Sachs.
Futures manipulation caused the price increase. A barrel of oil was traded 27 times before it reached the consumer.
Quit pickin' on Michael. He did the best he could given the cards he was dealt.
DTuna
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Quote:
...I am somewhat surprised at the tributes to his genius, and point out that if he was truly as wonderful as "they" say, then a mere 19 or so posts on this topic is surprisingly few. Or are many of you voting by sitting on your hands?
The average age on this site is ??
The most beloved instrument on this site is what.....an accordion?
Everyone here watched the Lawrence Welk show and knows who Myron Floren is.
...need I say more?
DTuna
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Quote:
I am somewhat surprised at the tributes to his genius, ....
He is the 4th largest selling artist in history. That's gotta account for something!
DTuna
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Quote:
Quote:
I am somewhat surprised at the tributes to his genius, ....
He is the 4th largest selling artist in history. That's gotta account for something!
Yes, but what does it account for? More books and articles, etc. have been written about Adolf Hitler than ever will be about MJ - that's gotta account for something.
Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to just when he made his last "significant contribution" to the art of music.
And how many of you are doing covers of his work, compared to other lesser known artists?
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Quote:
Yes, but what does it account for? More books and articles, etc. have been written about Adolf Hitler than ever will be about MJ - that's gotta account for something.
...not quite getting your reference to Hitler although Hitler's book is still selling.
DTuna
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Quote:
Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to just when he made his last "significant contribution" to the art of music.
Where do you suppose Madonna, Britney etc. got their moves?
Why does it matter WHEN he made his last contribution? His contribution was enormous.
If Einstein had ended his career with E=mc2......that wouldn't be enough?
DTuna
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I was not and am not a Michael Jackson fan. Not by any means. BUT:
I remember the Jackson Five - MJ and I are close to the same age and when I was a child he captivated me. His voice and his moves. I remember being upset when he struck out on his own as I felt he had betrayed the group.
In hindsight, he was probably pushed out on his own as I think he was too young to have necessarily been the prime mover behind it, but at the time I was very disappointed because I liked the group and they died when he left.
Now, I never followed his career. After he went solo I never found him nearly as appealing and pretty much forgot about him. Much of the rest of the world didn't. Whether you like his art or not, whether he appealed to you or not, you cannot deny that he was a consummate entertainer. He knew his market and exploited it - just look at the fan base - you cannot argue against it.
Was he a good musician, songwriter or dancer? I don't really know - I didn't follow his career and don't have basis for a valid opinion.
As a comparison, what about KennyG? Here is a musician that many look down on too because, they claim, he has bad intonation or bad this or bad that, but he is popular and makes money. Why? same reason as MJ - he is an entertainer.
I know plenty of very good musicians who will never get anywhere in music. Because they are NOT entertainers. The ability to captivate and entertain the crowd takes more than good or even great musical skills or a wonderful voice. It takes an ability to connect with the crowd, to make them your best friends while you are performing, to so grab their attention that they cannot ignore you or get enough of you, and the ability to know and give them what they want.
Was he a paedophile, was he some kind of evil monster or some of the other claims that have been made over the years? The only ones who really know are the ones involved. All we know is what the media tell us and that is carefully controlled by either the marketing machines or those journalists with either an axe to grind or a nose for a good story, or both. I forget who it was who first said*; "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story". The MJ saga exemplifies this.
* <Edit> I remembered. I'm pretty sure it was William Randolph Hearst. A media magnate - how appropriate...
Last edited by Lawrie; 07/13/09 06:00 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Quote:
I know plenty of very good musicians who will never get anywhere in music. Because they are NOT entertainers. The ability to captivate and entertain the crowd takes more than good or even great musical skills or a wonderful voice. It takes an ability to connect with the crowd, to make them your best friends while you are performing, to so grab their attention that they cannot ignore you or get enough of you, and the ability to know and give them what they want.
Totally agreed. Ditto
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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>>>KUNSTLER>>>....It’s fascinating to follow the coverage of Michael Jackson’s death, but especially the lavish tributes to his “genius” and general wonderfulness. He was, in fact, a monster...>>>
Q: Who is Kunstler, and why should I or anyone else care what he thinks?
I find it difficult to get past the bizarro-world created around Michael by the tabloid media. Fortunately I was able to get another take on his career from friends, colleagues and family members who belong to the same race/culture that Micheal comes from. In talking with a casual group that has decided to focus on the positive difference Michael has made in his profession, one find that the scope of his contribution is truly vast.
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Kunstler? Means artist in German...
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Quote:
Kunstler? Means artist in German...
...in this case it is the name of an American blogger. See earlier post.
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