Are there plans to update the interface of BIAB at any time soon? The application could literally be a case study for bad GUI design. This is the 2023 release:
I could post screenshot after screenshot of dialogs with an endless array of options, but I'm sure the situation is known to most users. Every year there is a new release, and the GUI just stagnates. I get it is a large undertaking, but couldn't it be done at least piece-meal.
I guess my question is 'how would you make it better?' I'm not saying it couldn't do with a refresh, but there is so much going on with this program and so much that needs to be shown, and accessible, I can't even imagine what it might look like. Want to do an 'idea' image to give us some idea of what a refreshed 2024 BIAB might look like?
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
There has been massive transformation in the functioning of Biab and the GUI was left behind, it's always been an issue but I think the horse has bolted. The place to look is the Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin Standalone there has been so much development into the GUI and suggestion are usually implemented quickly. This is like a clean start and now is the time to put in suggestions so things can be nipped in the bud. I think the BBPlugin/Standalone will be the future, as the needed generate code is moved into the BBPlugin/Standalone this will move ahead of the main Band in a Box app for ease of use and instant generate speed. You will have real time signatures, decimal tempo map, more tracks than the main app and way over 255 bar limit.
You know that you can change color and fonts to most items in the front and even add custom transport buttons?
About the front of the GUI... I think it is pretty good, with exception of that "radio" button bar at very top. That should be "optional" and hidden as a default. Because I don't believe most people who purchased software in the past 5-8 years use it. Also, a bit useless given Utility tracks.
I also believe main GUI should be "flatter", losing the gradient on buttons and menus. Other than that I have no issues with the front and layout. -------
The problem are those modal "pop up menus" / dialogs. I could not agree more. So yes, a big +1 they have to be integrated into the workflow.
I started to lose hope that anything can be done with those, but in 2023 release, surprisingly ALT+F8 - partial regeneration was done, which is a non modal function. Still in the form of 90s box, which is disappointing, but seems function wise non-modal approach is doable. I hope PG team will consider re-design of these "pop ups". A good start would be major items such as: ALT+F8, F5, F6 menus.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- spryx, When you mentioned "couldn't it be done at least piece-meal" Please share your view. I am very interested. What would you start with?
BIAB is an amazing piece of software, I use it almost daily. Unfortunately it's like daily torture. Even after many many years of use, I still find myself just "can't be bothered" to try learning its functionality more than I absolutely need to because I simply can't bear it.
Let me add to that, I'm no beginner, I have no problem learning and using software. I have used many DAWs (still do, daily) and get my head around them very quickly, mostly without manuals because they are mostly intuitive. When I forget how to do something, it's easily remembered and figured out with just a little bit of fiddling about and looking for it.
It's such a shame that PG place so much importance on features that they simply (pretty much) ignore practical usability. Maybe they are just so entrenched with it that they can't see just how bad this thing is.
The software has many capabilities that I just find myself getting so frustrated that I give up in despair. In short, the whole thing is an absolute mess. Dialog after dialog, menu after menu, nothing collated or obvious and nothing easy to remember. Everything about it is like looking for a needle in a haystack. If I don't use a certain function for a while then a few months later it's like going through the whole torture again " ... how the f*** did I do that last time?".
I'd be happy to join a discussion listing things that desperately need changing but I feel it's not worth the effort and will be ignored.
As incredible as BIAB is, I think if PG aren't careful and pay more attention to usability then they are in danger of getting left behind starting within the next few years.
With DAWs like Cubase etc., they now have usable chord tracks, arpeggiators, Instrument VSTs with pattern generators and genre specific presets that have all come a very long way in recent years, some so good that samplers are becoming as good as the real thing, even for guitar which at one time seemed almost impossible. All editable with ease, transposable with ease and all virtual with no need for realtracks, BIAB's only redeeming feature.
BIAB is an amazing piece of software, I use it almost daily. Unfortunately it's like daily torture. Even after many many years of use, I still find myself just "can't be bothered" to try learning its functionality more than I absolutely need to because I simply can't bear it.
Let me add to that, I'm no beginner, I have no problem learning and using software. I have used many DAWs (still do, daily) and get my head around them very quickly, mostly without manuals because they are mostly intuitive. When I forget how to do something, it's easily remembered and figured out with just a little bit of fiddling about and looking for it.
It's such a shame that PG place so much importance on features that they simply (pretty much) ignore practical usability. Maybe they are just so entrenched with it that they can't see just how bad this thing is.
The software has many capabilities that I just find myself getting so frustrated that I give up in despair. In short, the whole thing is an absolute mess. Dialog after dialog, menu after menu, nothing collated or obvious and nothing easy to remember. Everything about it is like looking for a needle in a haystack. If I don't use a certain function for a while then a few months later it's like going through the whole torture again " ... how the f*** did I do that last time?".
I'd be happy to join a discussion listing things that desperately need changing but I feel it's not worth the effort and will be ignored.
As incredible as BIAB is, I think if PG aren't careful and pay more attention to usability then they are in danger of getting left behind starting within the next few years.
With DAWs like Cubase etc., they now have usable chord tracks, arpeggiators, Instrument VSTs with pattern generators and genre specific presets that have all come a very long way in recent years, some so good that samplers are becoming as good as the real thing, even for guitar which at one time seemed almost impossible. All editable with ease, transposable with ease and all virtual with no need for realtracks, BIAB's only redeeming feature.
I agree with everything you've said. I use it and religiously upgrade but ONLY for the new RealTracks. However, every year they add a few half-baked features and break a few existing features and I am required to suffer with these because the new RealTracks won't work with last year's version. And the true beta testing begins with paying customers on December 1 and lasts for 4 or 5 months.
It is so sad because at it's core, the RealTracks are PURE GENIUS! Nothing out there beats it (although products like EZDrummer and EZKeys are about there for those specific instruments.)
And the BIAB plugin, IMHO, is just another GUI mess with its own set of problems. I don't see it as an improvement to BIAB as of yet.
I've given up on the hope for a modern, professional GUI overhaul. I see no evidence that they even believe they need it! My wish now is they will stop with the new-featuritis and let me use the new RealTracks with my stable older version and the warts I already know how to work around.
I remember way back I said about having a 64bit C++ re-write of Biab/RB into one application. It was a very long thread and I copped so much flak for even suggesting such a thing. When new users came with new ideas the old guard held them back for such a long time I think that horse has bolted, the old guard's loyalty without any though for the future and not giving constructive criticism has got it in this predicament.
I posted this about the BBPlugin:
There is nothing else that can give world class session musicians right in your studio DAW. There are a few VSTi's that can give some recorded patterns but nothing to the extent of the recordings that Biab has.
The BBPlugin has been a start to get away from the learning curve of trying to work out Biab and not being able to sync it to your DAW workstation to create the tracks you need.
The BBPlugin can become a Professional Industry Standard Goto as long as these issues are sorted out: Generate and Play tracks instantly in the Plugin by playing the source files direct from the generated text data, no rendering down to wav at all (unless needed to export). Fit and sync with any Time Signature in the DAW. Sync with any decimal varying tempo map. Go over 255 bars. 48khz / 24bit source wav/aiff files.
If there are anymore you recommend, please list them. At the moment there's not as much use of the BBPlugin as there should be simply because you can generate and play in Biab very quick and simply drag export files. With the above way the Plugin could load a frozen Biab SGU and play it back identical instantly, no waiting and waiting and getting cups of coffee.
But again "The voice of one crying in the wilderness"
I have heard users say "Wow PG playable RealTracks we didn't think this could be done, thank you PG" yet I posted how to do this years n years ago plainly out there for all to see, but what response was there ? OMG look back through the forum, new users with new ideas are jumped on and got rid of, look at their number of post. again "The voice of one crying in the wilderness"
Further.. I have recommended users that were knowledgeable for testing and I have seen uses say "I would recommend against this as I think that users will just want to "change things"". Again that's why Biab is in this predicament.
The whole idea of the Biab Track Injector was to instantly transfer the tracks out of Biab into a DAW where you have total control of everything, so you don't have to worry about what the Biab GUI looks like, all you need is the great musical arrangement/production/generation side of it and the great content BANG straight into something you can change the themes, shortcut keys, menus, functions of easily.
Having BBoutput.txt in bb\Data\ would give you instantly all current BB/Util tracks into Reaper:
I forgot I made this post... and my login until now. Here is hoping for an update on this front in 2024.
Originally Posted by Lee N
...I'd be happy to join a discussion listing things that desperately need changing but I feel it's not worth the effort and will be ignored.
You could make it modular where you can dock the components to the main window or have them floating. Menus could be customizable to just show the items you use. Dialogs ? I don't about them as there are so many. To be able to enable/show only what you need/use, or have a workspace/layout option that will give different workspaces depending on what you use it for: Clean, Simple, Basic, Complex Nightmare (long term users only).
I wonder if there is some type of compact high level notation form to effectively catch and write down the preferred “User Work Flow for a specific Task”. If so, maybe users could list their top 3 most important/used Tasks and write down their preferred Work Flow for each of them. Maybe that could give PG some useful feedback on usability.
“So while the goal of usability is creating a product that's easy to use, the goal of UX is to make the user happy before, during, and after using the product. This is no small feat. That's why UX design is an iterative process of researching, planning, testing, and refining every touch point of the user journey”
"Maybe users could list their top 3 most important/used Tasks and write down their preferred Work Flow for each of them."
That is a good suggestion, but i fear you will get about 100 different options. Simply people all use the program differently. Which creates problems in how to revamp with a major GUI and or functionality overhaul.
Misha is dead on with the idea of the non modal boxes. they need to all be like that and some should be tabbed and combined. What happens we will just have to see. PGM showed a willingness to make change when they upgraded the F8 alt F8 window this last year. I hope this is a trend. I also agree with him that the GUI is what it is, useable. Major overhauls will hide features and cause more confusion. I agree with the comment above that if you don't use a feature for a while you kinda forget where and how it works, and have to refresh your self. Is that really that bad? at least those features are there. this is a rich deep and wide program that requires about a half dozen other programs to begin to replicate what it does. So radical changes would cause crazy upheaval. Non modal windows, Simplified and tabbed workflow and right click drop downs can make things cleaner.
As to the plugin and standalone. it is time to begins some additional development. Direct to disk playback, and updating the utility and riff tracks need to be considered. All tracks should be equal, and the current multiriff feature for BiaB should be brought in so Riffs can be generated on any track. opening up the Riff tracks to be just tracks. this would give Users a very powerful way to use the plugin in their DAW. I don't think it will replace the main program because things like melodist, harmonist, notation, piano roll, and a dozen other features should not be added there. leave them in the older and more mature program, and don't bog down the plugin. Keep it fast, lean and mean.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Is everyone happy and doesn't have any problem with PG spending 6 months after the Win version working on the Mac version ?? Is there a better way or are they stuck in this predicament and is this how it will remain for eternity ?
Is it good the Plugin is crossplatform or would it be better too spending 6 months on the Win VST then 6 months on the Mac VST ??
I remember when the Alt F8 window was released in Beta testing, I said this is no good you should be able to access the Biab GUI while this is open, nobody else said anything and the reply from PG was we have never had any issue with this before (though the issue was shown many times in the forum in the Style Picker and the UserTrack dialog) and nothing was done with Alt F8 until a year later after me posting about Jail dialogs.
I used to use RealBand but gave up on that, if the Plugin now has the generate code in it without using the old bbw4 then I will give up on Biab also, Hasta la vista, baby.
Yes ”non modal boxes” is obvious! It should not even have to be mentioned or pointed out for a GUI of a 2023 software package.
I can see from many posts in this forum that “the GUI is as it is”, and there is nothing to do about it, it is better to spend resources to add more functionality etc. I don’t believe the software will survive without any changes to the GUI to make it more user friendly. This even if it now seems that there is nothing like it on the market so the users just have to live with it as is.
Changes may come very quickly and unexpectedly and then it is “good night” it is too late to react. Several prominent companies and market leaders have fallen and collapsed very rapidly when the company haven’t been in touch with what is happening on the market.
The only thing that is easy in using BIAB is that it is very easy and quick to put in some chords and to roughly select some type of style in some genre and then play a song (not necessarily what I want or are looking for). But most other things or refinements are mostly very time consuming and frustrating and as pointed out several times in the forum one forget between times and has to re-learn most of the time because nothing is intuitive and nothing is done in the more “common way” as it is done in other software. I guess that users that use many functions in BIAB on a daily basis get used to it and don’t have so much problems with it. But for others, new users or users that uses BIAB not so frequently, it is a huge step and learning curve each time. I mostly give up and leave BIAB after spending a lot of time on it and not getting anywere.
I wonder if PGMusic have done any customer satisfaction evaluations especially to see if new users stay with the software for a longer time or just buy it once and never come back for upgrades
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!
His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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