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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5 |
Hello folks. I am new here today, and seek advice on the feasibility of using BIAB for accompaniment, played through a laptop for live performance.
I am an old-timer [live bands in the 60's-70's], and now just play as a solo act 5-6 times a month,
for mainly seniors groups,like day-aways and nursing homes.
I currently use an acoustic-electric guitar and an 'M-Audio Black Box Reloaded' as a drum machine, to back up my vocals.
Indoors I run them all through a Fender Acoustasonic 2 channel amp, outdoors I use a 70's Yamaha mixer amp and columns for voice and drums, and just run guitar through the Fender.
Why I'd like to upgrade is twofold:
-The Black Box has no 3/4 time beats at all, a bit frustrating.
-I'd like to add a bass line if feasible, and perhaps a rhythm guitar or piano line.
I usually play about 30 songs each show, from a repertoire of about 300 altogether.
I have plenty of time between bookings to sort out a program of 30 songs from my total listings, but
I do requests also, so need fast access to any preprogrammed song.
I'd love for the software to have the capability of me accessing a lyric/chord sheet,
while a track plays, as I sometimes need to quickly refer to a lyric for about 150 of my songs.
I don't have a laptop at present, but my desktop at home is due for replacement, and even though I dislike
laptops, I can tolerate them if I use a mouse.
What I envision may not be feasible...a laptop I can punch up a menu of songs, click on the one I want to do, have the lyric sheet pop up, and start playing my accompaniment...direct from laptop to amplifier.
Any suggestions and/or advice would be most appreciated. Sorry my post is so long.
Disclaimer/ pre-apology: The more acronyms or hi-tech expressions used in response,
the more I will be lost as to the meaning.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921 |
Deacon, You have hit the motherlode. I can't address this in detail, but there is a vigorous community here who are using BIAB exactly as you wish to. It is everything you want and more. Brace for impact. You are going to get a LOT of responses.  Richard P.S.: If anyone blinds you with science, just tell 'em ta talk slow. They will.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Yes.
And more.
Bass lines - are great.
Can I have an example of a couple of songs?
The jukebox feature in band in a box allows you to create sets and then play them.
You can have both audio and midi type tracks.
Go for the whole thing, don't buy piecemeal.
Actually if you have a set list you might copy and paste it in the next posts, that gives us an idea of genre.
As to the laptop question, I bought a 79 dollar remote keyboard and mouse set from HP, uses a small usb plug and works great. AND the laptop is a bit further and I can see it 'better'.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,992
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,992 |
just do it.......i do the same with a 60s covers band. however, i find i get greater control with transferring the midi tracks into Powertracks and a little simple editing. lots of songs have distinctive bass lines or simple horn motifs that are easier to play in on PT. you can use the melody track on BIAB and the harmony to create riffs etc but the bass is much easier to do in PT. good example is midnight hour by wilson pickett - the bass is quite distinctive and i just played it in in PT.
but don't let me put you off in any way - BIAB is ideal for what you want - I'm just offering a simple way to customise your tracks to get exactly what you want - but 99 times out of 100 BIAB will do the job straight off
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5 |
Thanks for the fast responses.
I play in many different genres...
-A lot of 10's-20's-30's-40's Ragtime, Broadway, jazz, blues.
Stuff like "All Of Me", "Hernando's Hideaway","Some Of These Days", "It Had To Be You", "Dream A Little Dream Of Me", "Makin' Whoopee", "St. Louis Blues", "St. James Infirmary", "Bye Bye Blackbird", etc, etc.
-A LOT of 50's-60's-70's country by J.Cash, M.Haggard, G.Jones, W.Jennings & others.
-A little bit of Bluegrass, a little bit of Gospel
-Older rock like F.Domino, B.Holly, Everly Bros, Beatles, CCR.
-Some seasonal stuff, [like Christmas], and some novelty songs.
-I would do a few Ventures instrumentals if I had bass, drums & rhythm.
Kind of a 'try-to-please-any-crowd' repertoire, as the senior citizens particularly
love tunes that take them way back to past times...it's amazing how many know the lyrics and give a good effort at singing along.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 600
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 600 |
One word of caution. The learning curve can be quite large. I have basically been playing with biab for close to 20 years and to date have been able to actually create 5 tunes I could realistically use on a gig. The software will do everything pg and the gang here say it will do if you take the time to learn it and the time to use it. However, you need to know it does take time. Entering the basic chords takes no time at all BUT entering the lyrics requires a whole new process. You need to play in the melody line from some sort of input device (most folks use a keyboard). When you hook it up it won't play in time with the software because of something called latency so you will need to get another piece of hardware (an audio interface). Then you have to line the words up with the melody exactly or it doesn't work quite right. Then after all of this you realize that the tune doesn't sound all that good and you have to spend countless hours trying to find the right background style and or real tracks to get it the way you really want it. Final results: exactly what you want but now you need to learn how to use the conductor feature so you can start and stop and repeat sections live on the set.
Now is this a recommendation for BIAB? Absolutely! For one thing maybe if you go through all of this we will be able to trade some arrangements. Our play list is exactly the same. If you go for it, go for the largest pak you can afford. The ultra plus mega pak gives you everything but the videos (which can be pretty much d/led from the pg site and the song and lessons paks. Believe me if you do it, you won't be sorry and will have a toy that will keep you busy for quite sometime.
Dell 610 dual Monitor, win 7-10, Sonar Plat, ProTools 10 & 11, Reaper 4, BIAB/real Band 2022, Easy Drummer, Superior Drummer, Kontact Essentials, Personnel Orchestra, Korg Legacy Analog & Digital
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5 |
Earl, thanks but you lost me a bit on the "entering the lyrics " part.
Your "only 5 tunes after 20 years" statement is kind of anxiety-generating -
If it's that tough, I don't necessarily HAVE to have any lyrics or chords showing on-screen, just the backing track playing after I click on a programmed song.
I could still refer to my "big book" for the infrequent lyric or chord I need to refer to now and then.
What is main reason for the "largest pak I can afford"? I thought my needs were fairly simple....more like what PRO offers ? Perhaps I am not reading the specs properly.
The other thing, folks, if I was to get a laptop JUST for BIAB programming performance, not for general computer use, what spec should I be going for ?
My local computer guy knows nothing of music applications.
Thanks again, everyone... sorry if I sound as obtuse as I feel....
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,835
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,835 |
Deac, what i do is go to the internet and down load .kar files. They are midi files that have embedded lyrics that will scroll on the lyrics window in either RealBand or Powertracks. I process them through good software synths, add RealTracks and RealDrums as needed, and play them The jukebox feature allows me to set the time gap between songs as I need and stop if I need and restart where i need. Very doable.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
There are 10's of thousands of songs kicking around. Lots of songs end in .mgu or .sgu
Use google and you are going to find people with websites hosting the songs.
Be advised, if you are a junk collector like me, I have 8 versions of All of Me, only one of which is in my favorites folder.
Another source is Notes Norton. I have the Early Rock and Roll Era fakebook, and his chords for the song. From there it's a matter of deciding if you need the melody, or just to expand a verse or two, I hate songs that are done in under 2 minutes, add a verse BE HAPPY!
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
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Veteran
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Quote:
Why I'd like to upgrade is twofold:
1. The Black Box has no 3/4 time beats at all, a bit frustrating.
2. I'd like to add a bass line if feasible, and perhaps a rhythm guitar or piano line.
3. I usually play about 30 songs each show, from a repertoire of about 300 altogether.
4. I have plenty of time between bookings to sort out a program of 30 songs from my total listings, but
I do requests also, so need fast access to any preprogrammed song.
5. I'd love for the software to have the capability of me accessing a lyric/chord sheet,
while a track plays, as I sometimes need to quickly refer to a lyric for about 150 of my songs.
6. What I envision may not be feasible...a laptop I can punch up a menu of songs, click on the one I want to do, have the lyric sheet pop up, and start playing my accompaniment...direct from laptop to amplifier.
7. Disclaimer/ pre-apology: The more acronyms or hi-tech expressions used in response,
the more I will be lost as to the meaning.
Hi Deacon and welcome. I modified your post to add the numbers.
1-4: Biab has a whole collection of 3/4, 6/8 and 12/8 styles, great bass lines, it has the Jukebox feature that allows you to create sets and organize them any way you want.
5. I think you're referring to seeing the lyrics for a song while it's playing? If so that's no problem either.
6. Absolutely possible, several people on this forum are doing it.
7. This is the biggie. You're saying right here you're not computer and/or software literate. Obviously this is a forum and I don't know you at all so please forgive me if I'm leaping to the wrong conclusion. If you have some experience with DAW's and midi great. If not I'm tempted to say forget it. DAW stands for Digital Audio Workstation. And midi is well, midi. If you don't know what midi is and have no experience with it, then it's really going to be a long slog for you.
If you are just a hobbyist playing around a bit then sure, get the basic Pro package and have some fun and when you learn it and decide you like it buy the full enchilada. However, you're a gigging old pro musician and you're talking about setting up a pretty complex laptop and software combo to go out and actually make money with and it has to be right with no nasty surprises. That takes a lot of expertise on your part. First, you have to be almost an expert computer nerd to understand what's happening in certain situations with your laptop, then you have to really understand Biab and how it works. You can't have some weird thing happen in the middle of your set and you have no clue about it. What you'll wind up doing is using two complete setups. Your old original set up in case something goes wrong and your new setup with Biab.
There is an answer to this however and Silvertones can tell you all about it. That is to use Biab at home to create Wav's/MP3's of your songs and all you do is play them from a song list on your laptop with the lyrics displayed at the same time. You know what Wav's and Mp3's are? You're not running Biab live. If you don't need all the hassle of creating these songs yourself with Biab, you can simply go on line and buy all the fully professional studio backing tracks for any song you want in any key you want just no vocals. Cue one up and start singing. They cost $6 or $7 each, less when you bundle up 15 or 20. But for 300 songs that's still a lot more than buying the Ultrapak. That's turning yourself into a live karaoke performer. Using Biab live allows you to be a bit more interactive than that but it could be difficult for you to learn what's necessary to accomplish that.
Just giving you some ideas.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,923
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,923 |
Deacon3, if you are trying to do a note for note cover then you should use
RealBand, (RB), it comes free with Band-in-a-box (BiaB). Be prepared to do a lot of editing to get your exact covers. You may get a song or less a month this way.
If you are looking for some great backing tracks that are not an exact cover copy then use Biab. Just input your chords, pick a style and play then save the file. You should be able to get a song out per hour or less.
BiaB and RB are very in depth programs. However for generating backing tracks they are very intuitive for a musician to use. Like you I am a guitarist. I was playing along with BiaB about 20 minutes after installing the program! The longer I use it the more in-depth I get with the program. I still only use about 30% of what BiaB can do, but I use the parts that I need to use. I do not use lyrics and it sounds like you do not need to use that portion of the program either; I’ll let someone who uses lyrics tell you how hard or easy it is to use.
It is a the perfect program for what you need to do.
PS – I do covers also. I do not do exact copy covers and most people don’t even care!
I just posted a selfie and all of the responses were get well soon!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 20
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 20 |
Deacon
You will find that there are many different ways that people achieve this same end, & you need to work out the best way for you, depending on your computer & musical skills.
Others have already given you there methods, all of which work for them.
I create all my backing tracks myself, using the following method.
Source the chords, either by ear or using chord books, internet, etc. (my fav internet site for this is Betty Lou's guitar site).
Plug these chords in to BIAB in the layout you want (eg, intro, verse chorus etc).
Pick an accompaniment style - this can take a long time, esp at first.
When you are happy with the backing, save it as a mid file, then close BIAB & open file in Powertrax.
As mentioned by others, you need to allocate the lyrics to a melody track. You can either play the melody, or what i quite often do is just fill the entire melody track with the same note, 4 (or 3 depending on time) beats to the bar. This is just to hold the lyrics, and gets deleted later anyway.
Type the lyrics into the melody track as closely as possible to the correct beat.
Split the melody track into seperate melody & lyrics.
Save and play with either Powertrax or BIAB. Both of these can display lyrics & chords while playing. Alternatively export to Wav or MP3 file, but no lyrics unless you want to get into a type of file called CDG.
I usually find that it takes me around 1 - 2 hours to create a backing track I am happy with, another hour or so to add the lyrics (using the fake melody method).
Another thing you need to be aware of is that some laptops create noise through the audio output to some devices, so I would suggest that before laying down your hard earned, you try any laptop out with the equipment you are going to be using.
Hope this helps.
Simon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Quote:
What I envision may not be feasible...a laptop I can punch up a menu of songs, click on the one I want to do, have the lyric sheet pop up, and start playing my accompaniment...direct from laptop to amplifier. Any suggestions and/or advice would be most appreciated. Sorry my post is so long.
Deacon43,
What you envision is just what I and numerous other musicians do everyday. Lots of good advice already I am sure even though I did not read all the responses . . . so I won't add anything other than if you would like a PM or even give me a call I'd be happy to go in detail as to setup suggestions etc. But even though it may have been said already I will suggest you get as much of the program you can swing, especially where realtracks are concerned.
To reiterate many on this forum do just what you want to do and more with this software. In fact your post and questions remind me of my inquiries a few years back. My only regret is that I had not found this software sooner.
Welcome aboard!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 241
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 241 |
-I would do a few Ventures instrumentals if I had bass, drums & rhythm.
Go to Free Ventures midi files site on the web and you will find 69 songs that have been made and they are really close to the original. The bass, durms, guitar, it's all there. All you need do, is edit them for your needs. By the way, I too am a old 60's music lover and player. Just import them into either Real Band or Pro Tracks for editing, if you have them. If not, you can aslo import them into BB. Hope this helps.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5 |
Thanks to everyone for the great replies.
I am contemplating what to do, and will take some time to think this over.
I have ZERO experience with DAW's or MIDI, and as jazzmammal points out, this lack of knowledge may make BIAB not worth trying. I didn't actually regard myself as computer-illiterate, as I have been using a PC for about 25 years, but since retiring 11 years ago I've done little with any software except for Microsoft Excel and Word, which I use daily.
Web surfing, spreadsheets, Word songsheets and online banking don't broaden one's horizons much.
That being said, I doubt anyone ever started out with DAW's or MIDI already knowing how to use them, so perhaps I could learn.
I know what WAV's and MP3's are. I'm sure this would be good, but it would remove my ability to do requests, which is a big part of what my audiences have come to expect.
I need no exact "cover" or tribute-type backgrounds, quite the opposite, just looking to make generic backgrounds.
Probably 55 of my annual gigs are "free", and about 7 are paid...so a large investment isn't practical when I might only have 5 years or so left for the "lugging-around-equipment" element of solo performing.
I'm leaning toward getting BIAB Pro, and a new computer [which I need anyway] and doing some experimenting. Perhaps I'll stay with a desktop, and get a laptop later on if I can become functional with BIAB. Thanks again everyone, I may shoot a PM off to those who indicated this would be acceptable. Cheers.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,848
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Hi Deacon43 and welcome,
If you do decide about upgrading band in a box just to let you know that Pg music run a sale around mid December and folks save a lot of money when they buy around that time.
good luck
musiclover
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Posts: 8,021
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Like this?  I use RealBand that comes with Band in a Box. The first 3 wave forms are drums, solo & kick Drum. They provide cues as I'm a bass player. Then there's the lyrics & chord sheet. When I play I also have the small JukeBox screen tucked away in the upper right hand corner. You can't see all of the tracks but most songs are 9-12 tracks. I wouldn't say it takes 20 years for 5 songs but unless you are very computer literate it will be a chore at best.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
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Veteran
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Posts: 7,687 |
Quote:
I know what WAV's and MP3's are. I'm sure this would be good, but it would remove my ability to do requests, which is a big part of what my audiences have come to expect.
I need no exact "cover" or tribute-type backgrounds, quite the opposite, just looking to make generic backgrounds.
This is actually good. First, you would not have time in the middle of a gig to create a new song from scratch in Biab for a request. They all have to be set up ahead of time regardless of if you're using Biab live or creating an Mp3 like John-Silvertones does.
Since you're not concerned about doing exact covers, that makes things a whole lot faster and easier. I have thousands of Biab songs I've downloaded from the internet from various sites including Real Book One with all the jazz standards plus tons of regular stuff from polka's to R & R. I can easily email them to you. You could with very little effort open one of those songs and if it sounds correct to you simply save it in your songs folder and that's it, you're done. You may want to change a chord or two, maybe change the chorus repeats or key sig. That takes all of two minutes.
Have you listened to all the Real Track demos? If not, have a listen. If all you need are generic background tracks they're absolutely killer. You mentioned Bluegrass and Country. Listen to some of those, they will blow you away. The one weakness with the RT's is they can't be edited to create a specific guitar line from a Johnny Cash tune or whatever but if you're not concerned with that then they sound simply awesome.
Midi is different. Midi can be edited precisely to create exactly what you want. That's what the Ventures post is referring to. In addition to the Biab files I talked about I also have hundreds of killer midi files. The problem with midi is you need a good synthesizer to play them through. The basic soundchip on your computer won't cut it. I'm a gigging keyboard player and I have several thousand dollars worth of keyboards and sound modules plus software synths to play my midi's with and they also sound great. But if I were to give one of my midi files to someone who doesn't have my level of equipment, that file could sound like crap which brings us back to the Real Tracks. RT's were invented by PG to solve the midi synth problem and man do they sound good. You just can't edit them to do the intro to Satisfaction for example. You either have to play that yourself of just do without it. A midi file would have that guitar part in it but you may not like the sound of it if you don't have a $500 (or more) synth.
Still I think you can do this and I would recommend the Ultrapak with all the RT's especially since you're getting a new PC anyway.
More stuff to think about.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
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Thanks again all...I have a lot of info to digest. I much appreciate the time you all took to respond. Will no doubt be back with questions once I "get going". Cheers.
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For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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