|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349 |
While attempting to improve my own vocals during mix down I asked myself this question: Is it possible to change a vocal to sound exactly or more like someone else? I have read some of the excellent forum discussions on improving a vocal, but how about drastically changing it? We've all seen them use voice print matching on CSI but how would you change a voice print of Sinatra (or in my case, Mickey Mouse) into one from Elvis, or could you? If so, how do you start in an organized way to accomplish this using the audio shaping tools found in BIAB, RB or other recording/studio programs such as Melodyne? I guess what I'm asking is a breakdown into the different qualities which shape the overall sound of an individual's voice and how or if each of these can be changed without ending up sounding like a techno robot on helium. I currently have BIAB/RB, Reaper, and Melodyne Editor along with lots of downloaded FX but with all these tools at my disposal, where do I start? The hit and miss approach will quickly drive you crazy (er). Is there a way to visually reshape a voice print/wave form of a word to match that of another the way images can be distorted in Photoshop to fit into a given space or "envelope"? Also are there accepted sonic shapes like the Smiley Face EQ that tend to deliver the best or better results. As a side note (pun intended) I'm sure you may have seen the claim that Da Vinci "hid" a musical composition of his own in his painting of "The Last Supper". If not here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfuQU_qnqdwThanks for any input and have a good one, Carkins
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921 |
My first impulse was to say that it would likely take the computer resources of a large, three-letter government agency to do this. Then I remembered that I have a Roland VG-88 emulator which uses my guitar as a controller to effectively generate the sound any guitar through any amp, speaker, and effects. Not completely true, of course, but what it does do is amazing. So the core technology exists and is in use.
Then I remembered that Roland(?) has a keyboard which takes your voice and turns it into that of a choir--male and/or female, black or white. This is essentially a vocoder taken several levels beyond what has been done previously.
Still not what you're looking for, but in the right direction. Is it possible that somewhere in the works is a vocal emulator similar to the Roland VG? I don't see why not.
If something like this had already existed my musical presentation would have taken an entirely different direction. I'm a decent singer but don't have the voice for the electronic and blues styles I prefer. Instead, I use my electric guitar as my "rock voice." (In fact, you could make a cogent argument that I'm not a guitarist at all, but a singer who had a guitar in his hand when he decided he had something to day . . .)
Bottom line: It doesn't exist now, but I doubt there is any reason why it couldn't before long. Why don't you put a bug in Roland's ear and see what happens? (Now, how do you convince big-name vocalists to provide source samples for the emulator?)
Semi-related factoid: In the late 70s or early 80s someone figured out how to take 78 RPM recordings of Enrico Caruso, correct the frequency curve, and overlay the acoustics of La Scala to hear how he would sound if he was singing today.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
I think what you're asking about is referred to as "character modeling" Different people's voices sound unique because of physical variables in their moth, nose, tongue, vocal chords etc. TC Helicon has a few products that allow you to remodel the variables to sound like others. They have a hardware and software product that offers some capability in this arena. http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voicepro/http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voicemodeler/There are also two versions of the voiceworks ... the more expensive version (plus) adds vocal modelling to the pitch correction and harmonies offered by the basic version. http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voiceworksplus/Apart from these products, I've never seen any other product that claims to make a singer's voice sound like someone else. FWIW, they used to call it "voice modelling" but people complained the results were too cartoonish... which may explain the new term "character modelling"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349 |
Seems like some young enterprising brainiac nerd out there could take all the existing technology, bring it together and create another "Google.
Maybe call it Gargle?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Are you looking to do this with usable results, or just as an experiment?
If it's the former - I would say don't bother. If it's the latter, then you already have all the tools you need - starting first and foremost with working on your mimicry chops with your voice.
There is not a static EQ shape that defines a person's character in their voice, it is the dynamic frequency content, syllable to syllable that makes one identifiable over another.
Here's the best analogy I can think of: Think of your mother's voice, quick - describe it to yourself in terms of what frequency content it might have.
Now, think of it over the phone - still identifiable as your mother's voice, but the coupling with the mangled frequency response of the telephone transmission still doesn't take away the base essence of what makes your mother's voice identifiable as her. If you analyzed the direct sound vs. the telephone transmitted sound for frequency content, they would be worlds apart (I've done this in the past).
Yet in your brain, they come from the same source.
Does that make sense why it's not just a static EQ?
First work on mimicing whatever voice it is you are trying to match. That's what actors do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
our ears can distinguish a440 on various instruments by their unique timbre. there are several qualities or characteristics that determine the timbre of an instrument or human voice. they can be altered electronically by a circuit called a "timbre gate." fun experimenting. i have often suggested that pg music add a timbre gate plugin for us to experiment with. nothing so far. peter? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbre(ADSR—attack, decay, sustain, release) can all be manipulated electronically. to quote dr gannon: "have fun, eh?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,644
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,644 |
Many more things involved in timbre. You set up a volume envelope in your example. Frequency and resonance are a couple others that affect timbre .. along with LFO etc
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302 |
Wasn't the Fairlight capable of doing that? Taking any voice sample and allowing you to "sing" with that voice?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,217
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,217 |
.
>>>...While attempting to improve my own vocals during mix down I asked myself this question:
Is it possible to change a vocal to sound exactly or more like someone else?...how about drastically changing it?...>>>>
Why do you want to do this?
I frequently get clients in the studio who are not pleased when they hear the sound of their own voice. To them it does not sound right because is is different from the voice they have heard all their lives, every time they speak. (There are good reasons why it sounds different) To everybody else though, the recording sounds just fine.
These clients say something like "I want to sound like a radio announcer," or "I want to sound like that guy who does voiceovers on the movie trailers." What I tell them is that I have the skills and the tools to make them, sound their best. Nobody can make you sound like somebody else.
The sound shaping that goes into the creation of vowel sounds and other characteristics of language are light-years more complex than any digital processing circuitry that has ever been created. Your voice is a miracle just as it is. My recommendation is to learn the tools that you have, including breath control, to make your voice sound true and natural in its own beautiful and unique way.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,025
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,025 |
Carkins,
I have found my vocals have improved 100% by singing almost daily. I'd love to sound like Elvis, but I am limited by everything mentioned above. But, if you truly want to improve your vocals, find a karaoke type site and sing away.
I have a friend on one that couldn't sing a proper note or stay on pitch when she first started a couple years ago. We compared her first few recordings there vs her latest ones a couple months ago and the results were truly astounding. A night and day difference in tone, pitch and overall quality of her vocals.
I also did the same "test" with a couple other "off key" friends there and the results were the same. Their vocals improved so much they could actually sing a song and sound VERY good now. Tone deaf is how I would describe at least two of them when they started there.
I could only guess that by them listening to others sing there on a daily basis, coupled with them also singing on a daily basis allowed them to "learn" how to sing correctly.
Your voice is unique, why change it? If you want to improve your vocal abilities, start singing daily. I now know that practice does make perfect, I have heard it with my own ears.
Trax
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,644
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,644 |
Why would you want to sound like someone else? They've already captured that market.
Make your sound your own.
It sounds like such a simple concept, but it is what allows you to brand yourself. Sure, you can use tricks to alter it, but in the end it is YOU. That's what makes it unique.
This goes for every aspect of your recording. Right through the mastering phase.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,689
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,689 |
Quote:
It sounds like such a simple concept, but it is what allows you to brand yourself. Sure, you can use tricks to alter it, but in the end it is YOU. That's what makes it unique.
Amen!
Don S.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058 |
I've posted a link to an interview for the fellow that created Melodyne. This interview is a biography but even more about how he "sees" sound in a 3d world. This might give others insight into the marvelous visualization of sound. Hope you enjoy. Wyndham http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=videos#topThe video is the one that's named " What does a Stone Sound like"
Last edited by Wyndham; 11/11/11 03:12 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302 |
Harv, didn't the last guys who did that blame it on the rain?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705 |
Sound like somebody else, hmmmmm I would like to be able to impersonate others i.e. Rich Little and of course the cat with the puppets Terry Fator Big Talent!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Quote:
Wasn't the Fairlight capable of doing that? Taking any voice sample and allowing you to "sing" with that voice?
No.
The Fairlight is a sampler. It allowed you to sample a sung note, and use it as a sample. Plain and simple.
These questions about totally morphing one's tone/timbre of someone's voice into another's seem to be popular here lately.
The state of the art of digital music is not there yet, nor will it be for a very long time.
This isn't as simple as amplifier simulation, or EQ, or Melodyne DNA, which all by comparison are much simpler DSP tasks. It's not as simple as converting the pitch of a tone to MIDI note information. Morphing one's voice into another's without it sounding processed is a much much more complicated task. Look, I have friends that are doing post doctoral research in audio DSP as it pertains to music at Stanford and University of Michigan. They aren't even close to this yet. Feel free to peruse their on-going research. Stanford's CCRMA on-going research topics: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/category/group-type/research-group
U-M's ongoing research topics: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/eecs/research/area.html?r_id=36
There are other universities specializing in signal processing for audio in the US, in Europe and elsewhere. None of them have tried to reach this far yet; so the prospects of being able to do this with our resources in our DAW software are meager at best.
I sat in the musical DSP presentations last week at the Acoustical Society of America meeting in San Diego. Nothing even remotely close to this complicated was presented.
I would concentrate my energies elsewhere, unless you want to get involved with the folks at CCRMA at Stanford, or Greg Wakefield's folks at U-M, etc.
The answer is not EQ. The answer is a bank of Core i7 computers using some type of algorithms not even invented yet.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if it were available at our fingertips, there would be YouTube videos showing how it's done. "Look here, I changed my voice to sound like Mel Torme, or Elvis, or Justin Bieber - here's how you can do it."
-Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250 |
Quote:
Why would you want to sound like someone else?
I agree with rharv. I never like hearing anyone try to sing like someone else. Covers are fine, but make the songs your own.
If someone wants to do a one or two song live tribute to a “legend” with a distinctive voice like Elvis, Dylan, Ray Charles, etc., that can be fun. But if they can’t make their own mark with the sound of their own voice, they’ll always just be a cheap imitation of someone else.
It’s bad enough that we have Auto Tune that fixes poor vocals of no talent singers for their recordings, and then they lip sync their way through their “live” performances. I hope we never see voice emulation software to further de-humanize and cheapen music.
I’m not anti tech. I have no problem with an artist like Taylor Swift using auto tune for her recordings because her live performances are obviously done without it. She’s a mediocre singer who also happens to be a very good performer and a pretty good song writer and musician. (Not to mention that she’s prettier than a speckled pup and seems to be a really nice girl who goes out of her way for her fans.)
Somewhere along the line we need to listen to the old adage of “keeping it real”.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,644
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,644 |
That's why I chose that tag line; "Make your sound your own"
It's a key to success. The most succesful artists came out with their own sound. You can too. It's what separates you from everyone else.
You may need to spend some time finding the sound that works for you. That is understandable. Trying to sound like someone else is a waste of time.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302 |
I haven't had exposure to a Fairlight since the early 80s when a local studio had one, but I swear I remember the guy playing a voice sample that was the timbre and characteristics of a local singer's voice that had recorded there and then singing into a mic vocoder style and it sang in that guy's voice. Of course that was 30 years ago so my memory may be faulty. I remember the thing ran some proprietary OS called QDOS and input was a light pen touching a monochrome green screen. I had 2nd row seats for Asia and with my telephoto lens (photos were legal then) had a great angle to watch Geoff Downes work it over. I also remember Peter Gabriel doing a whole album with Fairlight and Linn drum (Shock The Monkey days), and John Farnham's Whispering Jack was almost 100% Fairlight. I actually booked an hour at that studio just to go in and play with it.
I also remember the price made it out of reach for local players, and that they tried to make a comeback. And there is an iPad app out there somewhere but I never bothered with it. Everybody wanted one then.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250 |
rharv, Quote:
It's a key to success. The most succesful artists came out with their own sound.
Great point.
Can you imagine artists like Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson in the hands of todays producers? Auto Tune would "fix" their voices and lose all of the character of the artist!
We expected Dylan and Nelson to sing out of tune and have cracks in their voices. Obviously the public was okay with that. We knew who they were in the first line of the song and we wanted to hear more.
Music is becoming too "sanitized" and layered by our electronic toys.
It makes me think of the line out of the old Neil Young song "Union Man". 
"Live music is better! Bumper stickers should be issued!" 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,687
Posts735,976
Members38,539
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean