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how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? #145513 01/06/12 07:57 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35 F Fishb0bb OP Enthusiast
OP Fishb0bb Enthusiast F Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35	i have BIAB 2012 and its on windows. i have string instruments backing my jazz song i want to make them swell with emotion. does anybody know how to do that? Even if i have to use a different program? Thank you

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? Fishb0bb #145514 01/06/12 08:01 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581 MitchC Journeyman
MitchC Journeyman Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581	What are you using for the string parts.. what program, patch etc ? I just added Garritan Personal Orchestra strings to a tune I did and I used the Piano Roll to add velocity, and draw volume level curves to achieve more realism in the string parts. BIAB/RealBand stuff Orig. tunes (players) 'BIG HAIR' days

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MitchC #145515 01/06/12 08:07 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35 F Fishb0bb OP Enthusiast
OP Fishb0bb Enthusiast F Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35	Im using the strings on the BIAB. Mancinijazz slow ballad tempo 85 something like that. By the way how difficult is the GPO to use. im not the best with computers but im not the worst.

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? Fishb0bb #145516 01/06/12 08:28 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581 MitchC Journeyman
MitchC Journeyman Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581	Is 'Mancinijazz' a style name in BIAB ? If so, I can't find it. More specifics please of what you're using so I can pull it up to see what's what. GPO has great sounds, but it's only as good as you program the raw midi notes / data. BIAB/RealBand stuff Orig. tunes (players) 'BIG HAIR' days

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MitchC #145517 01/06/12 08:31 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35 F Fishb0bb OP Enthusiast
OP Fishb0bb Enthusiast F Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35	i thought it was mancinijazz but it must not be. can you still help me? i dont care what strings im using i just need them to swell.

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? Fishb0bb #145518 01/06/12 08:37 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581 MitchC Journeyman
MitchC Journeyman Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581	You're not helping me help you unfortunately. I have no idea what song you have pulled up, the style you are working with etc. What 'song' do you have loaded that has string parts that you are trying to work with ? Do you know what the Piano roll is, and how it's used ? If not, we have some serious 'lessons' ahead. BIAB/RealBand stuff Orig. tunes (players) 'BIG HAIR' days

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MitchC #145519 01/06/12 09:05 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35 F Fishb0bb OP Enthusiast
OP Fishb0bb Enthusiast F Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 35	Sorry for being so stubborn lol its been "one of those days". im gonna get some sleep and i would love to participate in your "lessons". Tomorrow will be a better day for this because of me. thank you i hope you understand

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MitchC #145520 01/06/12 09:07 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,871 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,871 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Perhaps also a little more explanation of "swell with emotion" could help. You already have the ability to apply volume increases (louder) and decreases (fade) that add a great deal of realism, especially when the strings are playing football music (all whole notes). Using F5 and making the string track louder and then fading over, say, four bars can do a lot. I use this all the time. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MitchC #145521 01/06/12 09:09 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,074 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,074 Winston-Salem, NC	this may be more info than you care to read, but it is about using piano roll to make all sorts of tweaks to a MIDI file, including swells http://bandinabox.wikia.com/wiki/Using_Continuous_Controllers_in_Real_Band https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? Pat Marr #145522 01/07/12 06:55 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,103 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,103 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	If you are using MIDI styles and not RT styles you can do this by exporting your song into a sequencer like Power Tracks Pro -- you could also do this in Real Band. There are two continuous controllers that regulate volume in MIDI, cc7 and cc11. cc7 is generally used to set the track volume. It's like the master volume on an amplifier. When you adjust the "Volume" in the main BiaB window, you are adjusting cc7 cc11 is called expression and it is used to control intermittent changes of volume of any note or group of notes anywhere in the track. To create a swell you would gradually increase (to get louder) and decrease (to get softer) the level of cc11. BTW, a list of all 128 continuous controllers and what they do can be found here: http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_cc.html -- note what it says for cc7 and cc11 Insights and incites by Notes ♫ Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? Notes Norton #145523 01/07/12 08:01 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,074 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,074 Winston-Salem, NC	Quote: If you are using MIDI styles and not RT styles you can do this by exporting your song into a sequencer like Power Tracks Pro -- you could also do this in Real Band. actually in Real Band it IS possible to swell both audio and MIDI in the piano roll... so it works for real tracks too. However, the other CC parameters (which are normally used to restore the nuances of a human's performance, (such as breath, vibrato etc) don't work for audio (and in fact are not needed because the nuance is an integral part of all real tracks) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? Notes Norton #145524 01/07/12 08:44 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	You can put your flat strings into any software and have them increase and decrease the sounds gradually at any bar. It does not have to be midi based, however you can render a flat strings track and adjust to suit your needs. On the other hand, you too can spend days learning how to program in midi, adding velocities and other exciting stuff. Very useful. Just be forewarned that about the only thing new in midi these days seems to be dying a very quick death. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? John Conley #145525 01/07/12 09:14 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581 MitchC Journeyman
MitchC Journeyman Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581	Assuming you are trying to do swells to a midi string part... Using the Piano Roll... The violin notes are in the top portion of the pic. You enter these manually or play them in by using a midi keyboard/guitar etc.. You can move the notes around by dragging them up or down to the desired pitch. You make the notes longer or shorter by dragging either end right or left. The bottom area shows the 'swell' you are looking to achieve. You 'pencil in' the type of volume curve you want to happen for each note, phrase etc. You do this by selecting 'Control' in the View/Edit area. Then in the next drop-down, select either 7 Main Volume MSB or 11 Expression MSB: You can set Velocity here also (how aggressively or softly the player, picks, plucks, or bows a note) BIAB/RealBand stuff Orig. tunes (players) 'BIG HAIR' days

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? John Conley #145526 01/07/12 10:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,820 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,820 Hamlin NY	Quote: Just be forewarned that about the only thing new in midi these days seems to be dying a very quick death. Only in your dreams John. You are sending a wrong message here. MIDI is still the hardware standard for communication. Companies like Garritan, NI, IK Multimedia, every DAW (including RB) and many other companies are using MIDI. The only people not using MIDI are the RB/RT inclusive PGMusic camp, the loop camp (I am NOT criticizing either group) or those that only record live or musicians in the studio. Everyone else is using one or another form of MIDI. PS – as an after though it occurred to me that even those recording live the band could be using midi, either musically and/or running a light show with it. I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................" 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MarioD #145527 01/07/12 10:35 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	Gee, and I thought I was entitled to my opinion, but I forgot I don't live in the land of the free speech. I'm obviously wrong. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MarioD #145528 01/07/12 10:59 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,074 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,074 Winston-Salem, NC	Quote: MIDI is still the hardware standard for communication. Companies like Garritan, NI, IK Multimedia, every DAW (including RB) and many other companies are using MIDI. The only people not using MIDI are the RB/RT inclusive PGMusic camp, the loop camp (I am NOT criticizing either group) or those that only record live or musicians in the studio. Everyone else is using one or another form of MIDI. PS – as an after though it occurred to me that even those recording live the band could be using midi, either musically and/or running a light show with it. MIDI is found everywhere in the music world. I don't understand why you would would say that people using loops and real tracks don't use midi, because the loops and real tracks don't REPLACE MIDI, they are used in conjunction with it to add new options. I don't think MIDI is going away any time soon, but I do see trends that are changing the ways MIDI is used. It was once useful online as a way to send music without requiring a lot of bandwidth... but now audio and video are commonly streamed in real time, and people are no longer accepting of the way MIDI sounds online. Eventually emerging MIDI libraries will be incorporated into operating systems and online MIDI could sound the same to everybody as it now does to people who spend megabux for the latest greatest soft synths. In the meantime, the person with the best combination of talent and technology will continue to sound better than the competition. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? Pat Marr #145529 01/07/12 11:09 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581 MitchC Journeyman
MitchC Journeyman Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 581	I honestly just do not understand this whole MIDI vs RB/RT debate. There is no debate. They both do different things. It's not an 'either / or' situation. To the point of this thread, to the OP, here is a tune I did string swells on... and it happens to incorporate BIAB, Real Band, using primarily Real Tracks. If there were Real String tracks I probably would use them. There are not, so I needed MIDI. Using Piano Roll, entered my string parts, renedered them with Garritan Personal Orchestra. And lastly, a live lap steel track. Every tool used was the right one for my particular need. Each element was necessary, and one does not negate the value of the others. Not much on debates so this will be my last on the MIDI vs Real Tracks thing... The tune, if interested: http://soundcloud.com/mitchc-1/beyond-the-reef-hi-c6 BIAB/RealBand stuff Orig. tunes (players) 'BIG HAIR' days

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? MitchC #145530 01/07/12 12:17 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	I have 4 midi keyboards a JV1010 and a Ketron. I have the VSC and the Dxi and the dog and coyote show. I have a EWI that uses midi. And I see little or no development of midi that excites me. My setup uses midi for the Voicelive. I'm not having a debate about this. It is my opinion that you won't see MIDI XML or MIDI2. I don't think the midi doorbell I stumbledupon will take over the world. I will admit that that doorbell gizmo probably has that FM chip in it we all grew to hate. I have all that gear and just because I think nothing new is showing up in midi I start a 'flame war'. Jeez, lighten up. That said 99 percent of the songs I worked on this week only used midi to send data to the voicelive while I thinker with mics and horns. That works perfectly. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? John Conley #145531 01/07/12 01:17 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas silvertones Veteran
silvertones Veteran Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas	The midi we have today is the same we had in 1983. It never grew or developed. That said the best way to improve on midi stuff is to get your self some sort of controller that is programmable & able to send any midi data there is. Both system common & system exclusive.Could be a small keyboard one or just one with buttons and faders. I had the JL Cooper Fader Master. Now you can "record" CC11 in real time the way you envision it.There are also Software versions as well. Some free.A little more tricky because you need to use a virtual midi cable like MidiYoke. John ESI Gigaport HD+ Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be 15.6" Monitor "The only Band is a Real Band" www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php

Re: how do i make my strings swell like real strings do? John Conley #145532 01/08/12 08:01 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,820 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,820 Hamlin NY	Quote: Gee, and I thought I was entitled to my opinion, but I forgot I don't live in the land of the free speech. I'm obviously wrong. Yes my friend you are entitled to your own opinion, as am I. I was trying to stress the fact that MIDI is not as dead as you said it was. If a newbee had read only your post they might have thought to stay away from MIDI. I wanted to show the other side. Peace - MarioD I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................" 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

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