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#178506 - 11/09/12 08:05 PM [User Showcase] I wonder how this forum works
Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
boehm Offline
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Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
I have watched this forum now for 5 weeks and written several comments. But I still wonder, how it works.
I understand, that there are differences in the number of replies, because it's just a matter of taste if I like a song or not. And if I don't I would usually not reply at all.
But why are there so large differences in the number of views? Some have several hundreds and others just 20.
How do people decide which posts they view and which they don't touch?
Can anybody give me a hint?

Guenter

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#178507 - 11/09/12 09:47 PM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: boehm]
Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 1323
Loc: Florida, USA
cubanpete Offline
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Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 1323
Loc: Florida, USA


Well Guenter, I have wonder that myself many times, and I have no specific answer other than maybe the catchy names or just popular well known people. Also noticed that most songs posted here are of the country genre, or so I think, aside from also most of them are performed by people whom can sing (I can't), not to mention mostly very well performed, so that helps I guess.
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#178508 - 11/10/12 09:40 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: cubanpete]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7697
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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You pose an interesting question Guenter. I doubt there is only one answer, but here's my take:

1) Some people make a real effort to participate in the forum by posting and commenting on other people's songs. In the spirit of payback, people are more inclined to listen and reply to songs posted by people who have interacted with them in the past. So, interest in other peoples' songs can lead to more interest in yours

2) By experience, you eventually decide for yourself which contributors tend to create songs you like. (and which ones don't) Once that decision is made, you'll be more likely to give songs from your favorites a listen.

3) When I see a song with a lot of listens, it often indicates that the song is worth listening to, so I listen too

4) the same is sometimes true when a song has lots of comments (favorable)... but lots of comments may also mean that the song has led people to suggest improvements

5) there is a tendency not to comment when a song doesn't bring anything "new" to the table. It doesn't mean the song is bad by any means if people don't comment (in fact if its bad, you're likely to get comments on how to improve the song). A song that is created by adding chords and generating the song with no tweaks is something that anybody with BIAB can do. Technique that goes beyond the basics almost always gets people asking how the composer did it. And that's when this forum really gets interesting.

6) People who experiment by combining various styles you wouldn't expect to sound good together also tend to generate a lot of discussion and comments

7) People who post a lot of details about how or why they made various creative decisions also tend to get additional comments, if not on the song itself, then the comments may get directed toward the additional information

8) some people only comment on certain genres, some tend to comment on clever lyrics, some comment on emotional impact, some of quality of mixing, how well the vocals sit in the mix etc etc

I'm sure there are a hundred other reasons I haven't addressed, but these few thoughts may partially address your original query

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#178509 - 11/10/12 10:12 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 7040
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
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Loc: Florida
Pat's answer is a good one - quite thorough and "insightful".

Another thing to consider is how people "approach" the forums (come in to them). When I first started looking at the forum, I was most interested in what people could accomplish with BIAB (considering purchasing it and wanted to see if it was all it was advertised to be - and IT IS!). So I bookmarked while I was in the User Showcase. And that is where I still "come in". And I enjoy hearing what people are creating...

Others may "come in" at "Active Topics", which lists the most recent posts. Only a few song submissions will be in that list at any one time. So those would "get the most hits" from that location if that is your "entrance of choice".
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#178510 - 11/10/12 10:16 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Kemmrich Offline
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Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Dang, I never noticed that "Active Topics" link!!! That's my new entry point into the BIAB forums.

EDIT: On 2nd thought, I went back to the forums home page. In the active topics, it always take you to the first post, instead of the first new post.


Edited by Kemmrich (11/10/12 10:20 AM)
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#178511 - 11/10/12 10:48 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: Kemmrich]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
"Strangers", which in this case just means relatively new posters, don't get a lot of response at first because of people's innate wish to not offend. It took the forum regulars here a while to get used to my sense of humor, what can be strange, sardonic and sarcastic depending on the day. Once they figured out that I wasn't really a total jerk (I have a few who never realized it) and learned that I understand that constructive criticism is just that, constructive, they now comment on my songs. And knowing where someone's sensibility level is presents another aspect. Nobody here MEANS to offend, but based on how sensitive and thin skinned a poster is things get taken that way. Once you know what to expect from who, it's all good. I know I can post a song and 2 specific users will immediately tell me there is too much reverb on the vocal track. (In one case the vocals were completely dry, and a guy told me there was too much reverb.) Another will tell you to make the drums hotter even if they are rattling plates in the kitchen cupboard. Some will criticize your lyrics, some will not like your tempos.... you won't please everybody all the time (or everyone would own all the same CDs) and a lot of people here respect that comment and apply the "If you don't have anything nice to say" principle.

It's a great group of people here with a lot of experience at different things and different levels of knowledge and education. Pros who still play for a living, many of us who used to but stopped, some who never played live much but are heavy hobby level, and total newbie amateur people. That last group tends to be shy about posting at first, but it's a good bunch of helpful people who will be glad to help you learn.

We have also had a few come in with guns blazing, telling us how great they are, being very condescending with their comments.... not coincidentally, they don't last long. The new kid should come to the playground with milk and cookies, not boxing gloves.

In my case, I started playing when I was just shy of 5 years old, but that was playing, not producing and engineering. I have a good ear to sit and mix a band in a live setting, but the studio is a different breed of dog. Many very specific things need to be done to make a quality final product, and it takes time and repetition to learn which knob to turn when. Plus factor in the fact that everybody has different tastes and preferences, and that's why the forums are the best place ever to get information and ideas.

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#178512 - 11/10/12 02:30 PM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4428
Sundance Offline
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4428
Good answers ya’ll. Although technically this forum is for showcasing songs and this discussion should really be posted in off topic.

Listening and commenting takes time. So if I’m time pressured, as I am this time of year, I’m usually going to listen to 3 or 4 songs with lyrics and vocals first as opposed to instrumentals. When I have more time and I’m in a listening mood then I listen to more. Unless I don’t relate to it, I listen to the whole song. Sometimes I listen twice before commenting. It’s too easy to say things that get taken wrong when talking about people’s creative babies so I try to think more before I type now. Sometimes I just don’t know what to say. I tend to go to people’s songs that I know first or to welcome a newbie to the board then get to the rest as I can. I’m not purposely trying to slight anyone.

If feedback comments posts were calculated on this particular forum, I would be one of the top posters. I’ve given lots of my time here on the users showcase since it began. Which brings me to this point.

There are posters who post songs and make zero comments or maybe one or two total on others work then disappear. I don’t care whether they comment on my songs or not - when I see this as a pattern I don’t go out of my way to comment on theirs or give them high priority in my listening. Most of us here are all working on our own projects too. If they want time they should get off their ego trip and spend some. Others come and go because life happens but I know they do actively participate when they’re here so I keep a look out for them.

Finally, if a poster says some variation of “this is not finished” then 99% of the time I don’t comment or listen. It’s nothing personal, I’m just not interested in hearing first drafts unless I’m actually co-writing with someone. There are other forums for that so it‘s not a priority here for me.

That’s my viewpoint - along with a big +1 to all the great answers already said.

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#178513 - 11/10/12 02:55 PM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: boehm]
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6514
Loc: South Louisiana
Danny C. Online   content
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6514
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

I have watched this forum now for 5 weeks and written several comments. But I still wonder, how it works.
I understand, that there are differences in the number of replies, because it's just a matter of taste if I like a song or not. And if I don't I would usually not reply at all.
But why are there so large differences in the number of views? Some have several hundreds and others just 20.
How do people decide which posts they view and which they don't touch?
Can anybody give me a hint?

Guenter




Guenter,

For me the answer is a quite simple . . . because of the shear volume of new songs posted here I don't have the time to get to as many as I would like. Therefore on the days I do have some time to listen and respond I tend to listen and respond to the songs posted on the 1st page.

Later,
_________________________
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

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#178514 - 11/10/12 08:37 PM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: Danny C.]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19293
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Posts: 19293
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I don't spend as much time in this forum as I'd like to, but when I do ..
I'll listen to a few songs, if a song is in a style I don't care for I move on. If something grabs my attention I'll comment. Often it's just personal preference that dictates how I use the time allotted.
No offense intended, just how I approach it.
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#178515 - 11/11/12 12:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: boehm]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14973
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14973
Loc: Australia
Hi boehm,

I've just read your email and I've got to say that they're interesting points you raise.

This forum is only a couple of years old and I've been using it since it started. During that time, I've seen many posters come and go.

Personally, I try to listen to and to comment on everyone's work. I also try to help out those struggling with understanding the software in the BIAB Windows, Mac and Realband forum. My time is limited. Because of this, I put helping others ahead of listening to and commenting on users' songs. Inevitably this means that I miss out on hearing some great works. I also let some enthusiastic members of our community down because I fail to acknowledge some excellent compositions. Until there are more hours in a day, though, I can only do what I can do. (For example, if a song takes around 3:00 mins, then listening to 10 songs as well as making 10 comments would take me around 40 minutes.)

I suspect that the reason there are a large number of views for some songs are due to the fact that some people either like to listen to a song multiple times or they like to keep up with the comments that are made in a particular thread. I've noticed of the years that if a thread has some element of controversy associated with it, HEAPS of people read it.

By the way, as I've said on a couple of your songs, your work is amazing. You've taken BIAB in directions that have never ever occurred to me. I imagine that if you are still posting in a six months time, you'll have quite a fan club clicking on your songs to listen to them.

All the best,
Noel
_________________________
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#178516 - 11/11/12 12:22 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Posts: 4570
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I don't post more than I do because of the subjectivity of listening to music. I have had people (and make sure you understand that everybody means well - nobody is here just to say "Hey - that sucks") make suggestions like "This could use a piano track" or something similar. And I take that as constructive criticism and weigh it tempered with a grain of "Well, had I wanted piano, it is there as an option and I would have put it in." If that same song had piano, someone listening with their preference may have said "Man, that piano track is in the way and you don't need it. Get rid of it." Ford vs Chevy. The key is that of you plan to be in a creative field you need to be able to accept criticism. You have the "no effects" purists that will suggest you remove the reverb even if the track is completely dry. Again, everybody here means well. Nobody here is mean and looking to throw water on your campfire just as you bring of the stuff to make the 'Smores.

Like me, I am a funker. Give me Tower of Power, Average White Band, Earth, Wind and Fire and I am a happy boy. The songs that bring da funk will get my attention more than something very specific like Latvian folk songs. I APPRECIATE any kind of music as long as it's performed well. It may not be my favorite but I grasp that it is someone's expression of some emotion in them that prompted them to write the song.

There is also the concept that is taught in college about "levels of listening" that we have discussed here at some point. The more you know and the more you know in different areas of music, you will be able to appreciate more varied kinds of music. The kid banging in the mosh pit may not be a music major but he knows what he likes, and he knows good from bad.

That's what you have here. People who know good from bad.

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#178517 - 11/11/12 06:57 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2419
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
Skyline Offline
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Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2419
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
+1 to most of the answers here!
Like many others I have some weeks in my life when I'm engaged on other things and time spent on music is reduced (never to zero though!), so I don't get to the forums as frequently. At the moment I'm working hard on pulling my band together after a couple of personnel changes, and as someone once said it's like trying to herd cats!

At other times I'm heavily into a song project for days on end, in fact I've had one 90% complete for some weeks which has been interrupted by various other activities.

I love hearing the variety of contributions here and may respond for a number of different reasons, e.g. if I really like the song, or if I think I can help when a poster asks for comments. I also fully appreciate that posters can be at different stages in their songwriting/homerecording jouney, and there is no way I will 'throw water on their campfire' (thanks Eddie) if I can find nothing positive to say about their piece. If a song has been assembled from only RealTracks, is bland, boring, badly sung and in short has no redeeming features whatsoever, I see no point in posting to that effect. That same poster may be a beginner, has learned something from the process and will later produce something intriguing - who knows.

I've seen a couple of posts saying this place is clique-y. I strongly disagree. If someone gets a lot of listens and positive comments its because, in my experience, they've posted something appealing and well recorded. No one here would be so churlish as to ignore or adversely comment on a newbie's song just because they were a newbie.
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#178518 - 11/11/12 11:42 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: Skyline]
Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
boehm Offline
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Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
Thank you all for the elaborate answers to gain insight in the machinery of this forum.
It will take some time to think about it all.
It was very interesting to see the various points of view.
Really a little family not of strangers but individuals.

Guenter

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#178519 - 11/11/12 06:29 PM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: boehm]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 7276
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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I think all of the comments were spot on. So at the risk of being redundant....
I'm relatively new here and felt accepted from the get go. Residing here are very friendly and supportive members relative to a lot of net boards. My wife and I have lots of interests (mostly outdoors things) and we currently spend a very small percentage of our time actually creating and playing music although we listen constantly. I would like to check in here more often and am trying to do so but I'm often on my iPhone or iTouch and they don't lend themselves to well thought out comments. Also, we listen to many genres of music focusing on blues, bluegrass, and americana; however, simply stated, there is some music that I just don't feel like I've listened to the genre enough to make a meaningful comment so I tend to keep a low profile on such tunes. If I feel like I have something to offer I try and post. I was talking to my wife the other day about how we ought to just set aside some time to start listening to all of the new posts in the user forum since our last session. I'm sure we'd find gems I'd over looked and we'd likely start learning more about different genres.
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#178520 - 11/11/12 08:00 PM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Maryland
SpaceDog Offline
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Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Maryland
Guenter,
I think you hit on something with your last comment, the forum people are like a little family and I'm glad to be part of it. I'm learning a lot from the more experienced folks and hope it will make me a better songwriter and artist. I hope they enjoy my stuff too but that's just a matter of taste.
I'm just thankful there is such a great tool as BIAB/RB and this wonderful forum to share the fun with our friends, colleagues and Forum Family.
SD

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#178521 - 11/12/12 09:18 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: SpaceDog]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4840
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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Loc: Florida
Guenter,


After a while you will begin to see the patterns to this forum. Every forum has them - this one is no different. The interesting thing on this forum is that some people make comments (long, detailed criticisms) but they themselves never post any music for others to comment on. Experts sans portfolio, so to speak.
So when someone comments on your stuff, consider the source. Eventually, you will learn who has the chops to make an educated comment.



Regards,


Bob

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#178522 - 11/12/12 11:05 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
Quote:

The interesting thing on this forum is that some people make comments (long, detailed criticisms) but they themselves never post any music for others to comment on. Experts sans portfolio, so to speak. So when someone comments on your stuff, consider the source. Eventually, you will learn who has the chops to make an educated comment.




Interesting that you notice that, Bob. I have noticed as well. Back in my early days here I posted something and someone criticied it in specific detail. I went to listen to a song by that commenter and that person can't play, can't sing, and surely can't write.

Now, while it is true that you don't have to be an expert to know good from bad, the idea of criticism is more involved than "by the way, you stink." As an example, while I can't golf anymore, I can tell you why you are slicing by watching your swing. I USED to be a decent golfer. That is a slightly different situation, though. Somebody who can't carry a tune in a bucket really shouldn't be making harsh comments about another person's vocals, and so forth.

You have that subgroup of people who hate this or that and if this or that is present they make the comment, again despite the fact that it is only personal preference and often not being in the game themselves.

Any creative field requires a thick skin. Also it is important to remember that not ever set of ears will like the same things. I am still trying to figure the appeal of the Grateful Dead, yet they had that huge following. I thought they sucked really bad. However, if a forum user posts music that is reminiscent of the Grateful Dead, as long as it is well executed, I can see the value and merit.

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#178523 - 11/12/12 08:26 PM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7697
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7697
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Guenter,

The interesting thing on this forum is that some people make comments (long, detailed criticisms) but they themselves never post any music for others to comment on. Experts sans portfolio, so to speak.
So when someone comments on your stuff, consider the source. Eventually, you will learn who has the chops to make an educated comment.





well, I have to plead guilty to THAT charge...
but the reason I never post is because all of my RB projects are covers, and only original music is allowed on the showcase. But, recording covers does give me SOMEWHAT of a basis for offering observations. (for what its worth, since all observations are to some degree subjective anyway)

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#178524 - 11/13/12 10:07 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
[quotewell, I have to plead guilty to THAT charge...but the reason I never post is because all of my RB projects are covers, and only original music is allowed on the showcase.




Then it's time to stretch your wings some Pat and get to writing! Flex those lyrical muscles and tell us a story in song.

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#178525 - 11/16/12 05:38 AM [User Showcase] Re: I wonder how this forum works [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7697
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7697
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Quote:

well, I have to plead guilty to THAT charge...but the reason I never post is because all of my RB projects are covers, and only original music is allowed on the showcase.




Then it's time to stretch your wings some Pat and get to writing! Flex those lyrical muscles and tell us a story in song.




that's about to happen Eddie.

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