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#208839 - 07/06/13 11:24 PM [User Showcase] The Last Refrain
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
just finished this one

http://soundcloud.com/lawrence-olivier/the-last-refrain

Banjo with fx 1579
Guitar 567
Banjo whit out fx 1579
Guitar 1582
Guitar 1581
Fiddle 1593
Fiddle 409
Bass 1580
Mandolin 820
Fiddle 596


The Last Refrain

My lighter don't catch no flame, my baby won't gimme no sugar
the dogs are loose again, By God it's been a long winter
but you, you supposed to be my spring

my coat don't fit no more, so I shed it like an old emotion
I walked outside my door, and tossed it in the ocean
when I'm lost at sea, you supposed to be my shore

a bottle and a pen, a shadow on a curtain
still as I take it in, like smoke I am uncertain
and you, you supposed to be my friend

An iron gait I feign, my chin is gray with whisker
these eyes betray the strain, sleep my favorite stranger
this plea, will be my last refrain

what is the appropriate forum for discussing recording techniques? I am not happy with my vocals. (s's, sh's ch's, de-essing ect.)


Edited by gruverider (07/07/13 04:37 PM)

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#208841 - 07/07/13 12:32 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14876
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14876
Loc: Australia
Hi gruverider,

The song, the arrangement and the mix are awesome! I've a pretty good sound system hooked up to my computer and this sounded A1 to me.

Because you mentioned the fricatives (s, sh, ch, etc.), I paid particular attention to them as I listened. They're fine. None of them stood out as overly pronounced. They all sounded very natural.

One thing I've found with the "s" sounds is that when working on a mix, my ears become incredibly sensitive to them and this makes it very difficult to get the balance correct when I pull them back a bit. It usually takes me three or runs through to get them ok. I usually leave at least 24 hours, preferably 48 hours, between each run through. I've found that having these breaks are essential.

Lastly, if you want to discuss any aspect of mixing or compiling a song, the Recording/Mixing Forum is the place to go.

Regards,
Noel
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#208843 - 07/07/13 01:34 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
gruverider,

Really enjoyed your work. The instrumental combination, mix
and way you put it together sounded very good.
The genre ??? not sure, but your bluesy flavor vocals mixed with
Bluegrass instruments were great.

Your lyrics and story told within them, really enjoyed.

Quote:
I usually leave at least 24 hours, preferably 48 hours, between each run through. I've found that having these breaks are essential.
Excellent advice. I do the same.

Thanks for sharing your hard work with us.
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#208852 - 07/07/13 05:17 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 2717
Loc: York, England
ROG Offline
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Registered: 12/12/11
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Loc: York, England
Hi gruverider.

I love this one!

As soon as I started reading the lyrics I knew I had to listen to it - some lovely imagery in there.

The arrangement is good and I particularly liked the false ending. The mix is fine apart from the voice which you identified as needing work. I think that whilst trying to deal with sibilance you've lost a bit of clarity. You could try patching in the PG 10 BAND EQ plugin on the vocal track and experimenting with different settings. It's a good way to learn about EQ because you can hear what each of the frequency bands does.

ROG.

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#208886 - 07/07/13 11:55 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
Sundance Offline
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
That intro is one of, if not the most beautiful musical arrangements I've ever heard on here for a bluegrass edged folk song.

I like the lyrics too but the phrase "an iron gate I feign" struck me as overly poetic in context with the rest of the street talk lyrics.

Didn't hear any siblance problems, but agree with ROG that the vox might be a just wee bit dark.

Noel makes a good point about walking away from the mix. My ears also get super sensitive to treble and "sss" after mixing for a while. I thought it was just me because of medicine I have to take. smile

Enjoyed listening.

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#208888 - 07/07/13 12:22 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Gruverider
man, I liked that a LOT! I'd pay money for a whole CD of that...

I know there are plenty of different opinions about lyrics that flow naturally, and lyrics that are poetic or lyrics that are a mixed metaphor of natural and something else... but my personal preference is for lyrics to be INTERESTING, and I just don't CARE what technique is used to make them interesting.

THESE lyrice are QUITE intriguing on several levels. Like Rog, I listened to the song primarily because the lyrics caught my attention.

Above and beyond the lyrics, the song is extremely musical and emotive. Your choice of effects (in a genre that is usually devoid of them) immediately made me want to hear more.

Your use of pauses created tension and expectations that help the song to scratch the listener's itch.

my ONLY complaint (and this is totally anal retentive on my part) unless your dog is hanging out in casinos and having very bad luck, the word you want is LOOSE, not LOSE

Apart from that, you tore it up! It was a great follow-up to your last song, which I also thought was awesome!

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#208902 - 07/07/13 04:58 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
gruverider Offline
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Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
Noel, I will take your advice and let it alone for awhile.
glad you liked it



Seeker, thanks for listening and commenting


Rog, I was trying to light a cig., and my ceiling fan kept blowing it out. It sounded like a good line to me so I went with it. and yes I will look into the band EQ, after I let it sit for awhile



Sundance, thank you for listening. I did want to give the banjo a synth'y, moody effect when I finally decided to intro with it.

also, I wanted to say that the character hides the pain he's in when he walks, but I didn't want to use the word pain - even though it fits the rhyme scheme : )



Pat Marr, glad you liked it. I'm definitely with you about lyrics, just give me something that catches my ear. I'm not particular about the style.

and thanks for catching the word misuse (now corrected)

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#208929 - 07/07/13 07:24 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 6932
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 6932
Loc: Florida
Lawrence,


Man! This is so good! Lyric, melody, vocal, instrumentation/production, mix.
I do hope you hang around for a while and treat us to more!!!

For "my taste", I would agree with Josie on that one phrase. But I can understand the other side of the argument. All depends on our objectives.

Once again,.... looking forward to more!!!

floyd
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#208942 - 07/07/13 08:53 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
boehm Offline
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Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
Hi Lawrence,

great job. Like the arrangement.
Effects on banjo is a good idea, so is the fake ending.

Guenter
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#208943 - 07/07/13 08:53 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
Sundance Offline
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
Gruverider,

I understand where you’re coming from. It can be a pain and brain drain to go through the strain just to change a lyric once it’s recorded especially when it’s only a fun game with no claim to fame and most of the other names here in the forum frame think it’s all the same anyway. I could lay the blame on this wired train that will always remain. Sorry it came out trying to help so there’s no shame - and you might find this lame or a little strange. But just wanted to make it plain that in the future if you should feign, I’ll restrain myself. LOL! grin

All in fun. Keep the songs coming. Like I said in the original post I enjoy your stuff.

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#208945 - 07/07/13 08:57 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14876
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14876
Loc: Australia
Josie,

My goodness!!!

When you said ...

Quote:
I understand where you’re coming from. It can be a pain and brain drain to go through the strain just to change a lyric once it’s recorded especially when it’s only a fun game with no claim to fame and most of the other names here in the forum frame think it’s all the same anyway. I could lay the blame on this wired train that will always remain. Sorry it came out trying to help so there’s no shame - and you might find this lame or a little strange. But just wanted to make it plain that in the future if you should feign, I’ll restrain myself.

... I laughed and thought, "Hmmmm .... now THERE'S a bit of writing that Pat Pattison would be applauding!"

Very clever indeed smile
Noel
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#208948 - 07/07/13 09:03 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: Sundance]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: Sundance
Gruverider,

I understand where you’re coming from. It can be a pain and brain drain to go through the strain just to change a lyric once it’s recorded especially when it’s only a fun game with no claim to fame and most of the other names here in the forum frame think it’s all the same anyway. I could lay the blame on this wired train that will always remain. Sorry it came out trying to help so there’s no shame - and you might find this lame or a little strange. But just wanted to make it plain that in the future if you should feign, I’ll restrain myself. LOL! grin

All in fun. Keep the songs coming. Like I said in the original post I enjoy your stuff.

Josie,
FWIW, I thought your suggestion was on the mark and quite appropriate, as testified by Floyd's reply (even though I offered a different possibility on the same topic) .

I hope that the gentle reviews that have become the norm in this forum always remain TRUTHFULLY gentle, and that nobody will ever withhold real hard-earned advice for fear of stepping on toes. In my opinion, the forum is as civil as it is largely because of you and Noel's influence. The rest of us follow suit partly out of respect and partly because it just makes sense to be honest in a spirit of kindness.

The interesting thing about truthful evaluation is that we all see the truth from a slightly different vantage point. You and Noel are forum heroes to me. Keep being nice, but also keep being honest, not withholding honest suggestions.

You have earned your opinions through experience, and in a perfect forum, sharing that experience is as good as it gets.

edit----oh, Noels response turned on the light. I thought you were apologizing for offering a suggestion. Erase erase.

wink



Edited by Pat Marr (07/07/13 09:06 PM)
Edit Reason: I'm an idiot? yeh, that's it

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#208964 - 07/07/13 09:37 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 688
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 688
Great song - well done. I liked the relaxed delivery. Really fitted the tune.

Dennis

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#208978 - 07/07/13 10:19 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:
The arrangement is good and I particularly liked the false ending.


in fact one might call it an interesting...

Click to reveal..
LAST REFRAIN



Please. Somebody shoot me.

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#208981 - 07/07/13 10:30 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
I most assuredly welcome all input. I always learn something and what is a writer if not someone searching for things that tie us all together, searching for some kind of truth.

I was laughing along while reading Josie's post. I enjoyed the post, and I like the line. It took many forms before I decided on “iron feign”. For me it describes exactly what I wanted it to without using the word “pain” to complete the rhyme.

I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment. Thank you Josie.


Dennis, thank you. I thought that vocal approach fit the character in the song.

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#208983 - 07/07/13 10:32 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1650
Pat LOL!!! yes, form and function! wink

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#208984 - 07/07/13 11:40 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6514
Loc: South Louisiana
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6514
Loc: South Louisiana
Man I really dug the downcast mood this arrangement brought me to . . did I just say that? Sure did put me in mind of some tough times. You painted a very clear picture.

Good stuff!

later,
_________________________
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#208988 - 07/08/13 12:52 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New Zealand
RichMac Offline
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Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New Zealand
Yea! love it. Brings to mind Gangstagrass.
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#208990 - 07/08/13 01:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 3072
Loc: wales
gibson Offline
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Enjoyed that, 'specially like the vocal style.

Alyn
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#209084 - 07/08/13 06:18 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Last Refrain [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 7150
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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I really like it all the way around. It fits very nicely with the different genres of music that we regularly listen to. Great vocal, instrumentation, lyrics and a dynamite arrangement.

Yep, for many reasons, often we have to step back, create a little distance and then listen again. I nearly threw out the last two tunes we posted until I listened for one last time after a few days.

Bud
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