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http://wheatwilliams.com/wordpress/2013/...1/#comment-2380Here's a review of BIAB from someone outside of the regular users. A few things are debatable and a few things are worth consideration. Plus you can leave comments. Later, Ray
Last edited by raymb1; 08/31/13 12:09 PM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Ouch, but heck, I love BIAB anyway simply because nothing else on the market does what it does.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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A lot of you BIAB Ole timers know this, but.
There are so many "hidden" things built into this music system
over the years I agree with Dan 300%.
In a good way, sometimes wonder if the BIAB folks know about
most of them.
However you use the piece of software, it just keep on giving.
Last edited by seeker; 08/31/13 01:57 PM.
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It's good to get an outside perspective. A lot of what he says has been complained about here for years but he's also way off base on a few things too simply because he doesn't understand the program. Who knows, since there's no mid year release this summer perhaps some of these fundamental things are being addressed.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Keep in mind as you read a couple of his complaints that he was using the Mac version of Band-in-a-Box. He later revised his post to make that more clear.
BIAB 2023 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6 Pro, Swam horns, Audition 3, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & A5X monitors
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I've noticed that many of the writer's criticisms have popped up on these forums over the years. As Ray says, some bear thinking about. To my mind, others seem to show that the writer does not fully appreciate just how inherently complex Music is.
I've reflected on the above complexity many times since first buying BIAB in 2007 and I believe that PG Music have managed to cater to both professional and novice with their programs. BIAB engages users on many levels. I cannot see how it's possible to simplify BIAB without losing functionality simply because music is such a complex thing. The fact that there is no other program on the market that does what BIAB/RB does as comprehensively as what BIAB/RB does is worth noting. I suspect that the really big names have thought about it but have found it too hard to accomplish what PG Music has at a reasonable price.
Just my tuppence worth!
Noel
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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"It would be totally amazing if a company like those of the developers of Finale or Sibelius could buy out or license the BiaB technology and put it right into their modern music creation and notation environments."
PLEASE NO !!!!!!! Not AVID !!! PLEASE !!!!!
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
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Noel, you always hit the nail on the head. There probably is no way to pare down BIAB without losing something. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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"It would be totally amazing if a company like those of the developers of Finale or Sibelius could buy out or license the BiaB technology and put it right into their modern music creation and notation environments."
PLEASE NO !!!!!!! Not AVID !!! PLEASE !!!!! If I understand the news correctly, Avid owns Sibelius, but not the "developers". The founders (the Finn brothers) had already sold the company, and then the remaining developers were fired. However, most of them are back together and are now working on a new notation software program in a different company.
BIAB 2023 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6 Pro, Swam horns, Audition 3, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & A5X monitors
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I cannot see how it's possible to simplify BIAB without losing functionality simply because music is such a complex thing.
Noel Noel, you always hit the nail on the head. There probably is no way to pare down BIAB without losing something. Later, Ray I totally disagree. This thread, for example: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=177712#Post177712is full of great ideas about redesigning / simplifying the program's interface, which seems to be the main focus of criticism in this, and other reviews. While most long time users in this forum seems to be happy with BIAB's interface, most of first time users (at least in my experience) find it a little bit daunting / confusing, and many potential users just refuse giving BIAB a try simply because they perceive it as a too much complex or outdated program, given it's interface. In my opinion, the review does a great job identifying some of the reasons that helps understanding why many newcomers see BIAB this way, and giving some specific examples that needs urgent attention from PG Music. Anyway, I suspect that Peter and his team are already working in a serious redesign for BIAB 2014. If I'm right, that would be (at least to me) the best new "feature" in the program's history since the introduction of Realdrums and Realtracks 
Using BIAB 2023, latest build.
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Without going into a whole litany of issues, simply making the colors and texture look modern would go a long way. I posted in that other thread some screen shots of other DAW programs and plugins. Just look at the cool "luxury car" black and silver colors, instrument textures like wood,chrome and brass on various instruments pictured in plugs, stuff like that. I'm no where close to being a programmer but I suspect that this sort of thing isn't possible with the current code.
PG has no problem bringing in world class musicians to do the RT's so bring in some world class graphics people for this project. Maybe bring in some young genius interns who worked on Avatar or something. Then give it to the beta testers and let the fun begin.
My big worry for the company's future is this forum. It's like an old folks home around here. Ok, I'll say mostly, I know there's a few regulars who are under 50 but not many. What must a 30 year old who happens to find this place who knows nothing about the program think when most of the threads are about 50 year old tunes and people talking about nursing home gigs? I fear PG won't survive in the long run if they don't modernize for the younger crowd and it starts with the look.
I personally enjoy some of these threads because I'm one of the old farts here but speaking from a business perspective things need to change. Boomers are not the market movers we used to be.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Seems to be a rash of these blogs building. Aging musicians with too much time on there hands, No disrespect intended, heck, I fit half of that description and look forward to the day when I become a full time member of the retired musicians club.  There is a simple solution to this, - 50 new features and a bunch of new Real Track bundles. That will keep us busy making new music instead of blogging. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The most telling thing the reviewer said was
"if the BiaB developers tried to modernize anything, the old user base would howl in protest."
I am part of the "old user base" having used the program for over 15 years and I am also 70 years old. I have long thought that this forum, helpful though it has been, is PG's worst enemy. I sincerely hope that PG are not listening only to this forum when deciding how to bring BIAB into the 21st century. Ironically, many long time forum members are the least qualified to advise PG.
Tony
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I view these forums as an integral part of my own learning process.
Have listened to posted music, read hundreds of postings on varied
subjects.
Personal view only, "without these forums, I feel PG Music would
lose a great deal."
Biggest problem I see is you(users) need have some amount of music background, and also computer/technical savy. Also a strong desire to dig, try, read, listen and pursue what PG Music has presented to us.
Last edited by seeker; 09/01/13 08:34 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I cannot see how it's possible to simplify BIAB without losing functionality simply because music is such a complex thing.
Noel Noel, you always hit the nail on the head. There probably is no way to pare down BIAB without losing something. Later, Ray I totally disagree. This thread, for example: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=177712#Post177712is full of great ideas about redesigning / simplifying the program's interface, which seems to be the main focus of criticism in this, and other reviews. While most long time users in this forum seems to be happy with BIAB's interface, most of first time users (at least in my experience) find it a little bit daunting / confusing, and many potential users just refuse giving BIAB a try simply because they perceive it as a too much complex or outdated program, given it's interface. In my opinion, the review does a great job identifying some of the reasons that helps understanding why many newcomers see BIAB this way, and giving some specific examples that needs urgent attention from PG Music. Anyway, I suspect that Peter and his team are already working in a serious redesign for BIAB 2014. If I'm right, that would be (at least to me) the best new "feature" in the program's history since the introduction of Realdrums and Realtracks I hear what you're saying (along with others) but I don't think the issue is that the software is too complex and therefore, ought to be "dumbed down." Rather the criticism is...which I share...is that the DOCUMENTATION needs a radical...."fresh start" redesign because it is quite obvious that the FEATURES imbedded in the software have TOTALLY overwhelmed the documentation. Were it not for PG's UNSURPASSED tech support and the existence of THIS forum I think that the frustration level among BIAB users would skyrocket. If PG announced that they were suspending ALL feature upgrades for the next YEAR in favor of devoting all their efforts to rationalizing their documentation...dramatically improving search relevance...updating video tutorials and working to bring to the surface functionality that we must "drill down"...often WAY down...to access, then the perceived value of the software would increase by orders of magnitude vis a vis any raw feature enhancements. Best, Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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I'm a newcomer to BAIB, and I guess a relative whippersnapper at the sprightly young age of 48. At the risk of repeating some of the things in my thread of last week, asking about good introductory tutorials...
-- I agree with the reviewer -- "love/hate" describes my relationship with BIAB so far. I can't bring myself to dismiss it because it can do some truly amazing things. But...
-- for me the main thing is the lack of accessible, consolidated and bang-up-to-date documentation.
My main impression of it so far is just long, long, eye-glazing lists of features using specialised in-house jargon, without much in the way of a guided tours which quickly show you the cool things you can do with them. In my brief time here I've read several comments from long-time users who say that they still only know about / how to use only a small fraction of available features. My guess is that this is so because the program is so opaque. If the vets/ aficionados are in the dark, how many newcomers can be expected?
Yes, the interface is not attractive; it is also somewhat labyrinthine, but that partially reflects the many features of the program. But I could deal with these issues if proper documentation were in place. It is do-able. I think PG's own people are just too close to the software to be able to look at it through a newbie's eyes. First-rate outsiders should be brought in for this.
-- I very much disagree that this forum is a liability. Without you guys I'd be lost and probably would not even bother. Don't go anywhere!
Last edited by lingyai; 09/01/13 09:57 AM.
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Check this out. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=127655Reaper just released version 4.5 (free update by the way) this guy is responsible for updating the user manual which was release with the update. "...Great software needs good documentation, and I hope the latest upgrade to the User Guide will deliver this." As best I can tell he is a volunteer who has taken on the task of not only writting the manual but also keeping it up to date. This manual is awesome. So anyone want to step up to the plate and take on the task? I would but, ... I have day job.
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Sorry but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Are you seriously advocating that we make it all pretty just so the Kiddies can play with it and think its another Shoot 'Em Up game?
The moment that happens I will freeze my BIAB and buy no more upgrades.
I pay good money for BIAB cos I LIKE it this way.
Bah Humbug
Last edited by sixchannel; 09/01/13 10:59 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The most telling thing the reviewer said was
"if the BiaB developers tried to modernize anything, the old user base would howl in protest."
I am part of the "old user base" having used the program for over 15 years and I am also 70 years old. I have long thought that this forum, helpful though it has been, is PG's worst enemy. I sincerely hope that PG are not listening only to this forum when deciding how to bring BIAB into the 21st century. Ironically, many long time forum members are the least qualified to advise PG.
Tony I definitely see your point Tony, though I would say this forum is great in many ways too. It studiously helps you wqith any technical issue, but there is a lobby of hard core users that don't like radical suggestions. I stopped posting ideas because of this. I find its a wonderful incredibly buggy and antiquated application. I use it in a very limited way simply because I got fed up with the crashing. I open the program, pick my song, but use my piano outside of the application. I never record anything with BIAB. I find favorites hard to use and I agree with the comment that user songs should be in my documents (by default) rather than in the application folder. I never got realband to work at all and I cannot see why we have two apps instead of one integrated one (I got flamed for saying this). Being a Cubase user, I don't really have a need for RB but I would like many of its features in BIAB. However, I do think (guess) that PG are working on a new, perhaps radically redesigned BIAB for the modern 64 bit world (all my VSTs are 64 bit). I guess that's why things are so quiet on the update front - nothing for months now. BIAB is a MIDI application with a loop based (Real tracks) interface grafted onto it. IMO the Real tracks feature is such a hit that its even more important than the original MIDI application (perhaps with the exception of Super Tracks). I could not manage without it but really would like a proper full rethink of the application. I think its on its way...
Last edited by ZeroZero; 09/01/13 11:38 AM.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2023 for Mac is macOS Sonoma Compatible!
We're over the moon to announce that the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2023 for Mac Build 707 is compatible with macOS Sonoma!
Refresh your Band-in-a-Box® 2023 for Mac today with this free update to resolve visibility of notation in the Notation Window, apply smoother use of notation features, update to the Drums VU meter, and add the newest version of the DAW Plugin (5.5.13).
Learn more about Build 707 and download it here.
The Band-in-a-Box® 2023 for Mac German, French, and Italian language patches have also been updated with Build 707! Download your Build 707 language patch here.
Revisit: Eyes on Success featuring PG Music Inc., Band-in-a-Box®, and the Updated JAWS Script
In the past, Eyes on Success featured an episode that discussed our company history and Band-in-a-Box® program with Tobin, our chief development officer, including how Band-in-a-Box® is even more accessible with the help of their JAWS screen reader scripts!
Later on this month, Eyes on Success will be releasing an episode that features Gudrun Brunot talking about her new tutorials about how to use Band-in-a-Box® with JAWS.
It's a great idea to pair the two episodes together!
So, while waiting for their Gudrun Brunot episode, take 30 minutes and to listen to this episode from Eyes on Success. To download and listen to the podcast, use the link www.EyesOnSuccess.net/eos_2344_podcast.mp3
Eyes on Success is a weekly radio show / podcast geared to the visually impaired called "Eyes On Success" and that can be found at www.EyesOnSuccess.net.
Find out more about the show and get links to past episodes at www.EyesOnSuccess.net
Find their podcast on iTunes or use the URL: www.EyesOnSuccess.net/eos_podcast
User Tip: How to add drum fills without changing any other tracks
MarioD has shared some great advice when it comes to adding drum fills without changing any other tracks in your song:
There have been a number of questions asking how to add drum fills without changing any other tracks in a song. This is especially important if one is holding a chord for a few measures and wants to add a drum fill prior to the next chord. The following is how to accomplish that:
1-get the instruments/tracks to play like you want but don't worry about the drums for now.
2-generate the song.
3-freeze all tracks
4-unfreeze the drum track
5-add your fills where you want them
6-generated the song again - note this will only generate the drum track and not the frozen tracks
7- when you get the drums like you want them freeze the track
Have your own program tip to share? Post it on our Tips & Tricks forum!
Review - Band-in-a-Box® 2023 for Windows is Overflowing with Features!
Dennis posted his very thorough Band-in-a-Box® review recently, where he dives into some of the new features added with version 2023: Sound-Guy's Band-in-a-Box Review
Read his thoughts on the Download & Install Manager, partial track regeneration, Playable RealTracks, Audio Editing, the addition of SynthMaster, the VST DAW Plugin, and more!
"Band-in-a-Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is, without negative connotation, a monster of a program. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. No DAW can do some of the things BIAB does, while BIAB can do a lot that DAWs do."
Band-in-a-Box® Tutorials for Low-vision and Blind Program Users
Our friends at EyesFree_Tutorials have just released their Band-in-a-Box Tutorials, Bundle 2!
Created for low-vision and blind program users, this collection of Band-in-a-Box for Windows tutorials includes 31 audio instruction files and 19 music files for practice, plus help documents. Specific topics include "ABACA, let's make a song form," "Recording melody and lead-in," "Playing and editing: part markers; the handy clipboard. The play function. Search and replace," and more!
Learn more about their new tutorials, and connect with Roy & Gudrun to order the Band-in-a-Box Tutorials, Bundle 2 here.
Introducing... ChatPG!
Looking for answers to your questions about Band-in-a-Box? From "How do I ____?" to "What do I ____?" to "What is ____?" and more, you'll find your answers when you ask ChatPG!
We will be constantly updating the resources for this powerful addition to our website based on suggestions & feedback, as well as all of the questions that have been asked by program users and website visitors.
Videos! Get To Know XPro Styles PAK 5 & Xtra Styles PAK 16 for Band-in-a-Box® 2023
XPro Styles PAK 5 adds 75 new RealStyles for rock, pop, jazz, funk, and country, and 25 styles based around MIDI SuperTracks that utilize the SynthMaster plugin!
Here's just a taste of what XPro Styles PAK 5 has in store: electronic Latin funk, spacey dancehall grooves, soulful Americana ballads, heavy house beats, vibin' cool jazz, rollicking country train beats, playful pop country jams, gritty blues rock, modern disco funk, moody synthwave, subdued bossa nova, lo-fi jazz, and many more! Pick up XPro Styles PAK 5 today!
What are XPro Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2023 (or higher). Each PAK includes over 100 styles!
XPro Styles PAKs aren't exclusive to Pro users, there's a huge range of RealStyles available for everyone - even Audiophile customers! That's right, XPro Styles PAKs can be used with ANY Band-in-a-Box® 2023 package!
XPro Styles PAK 5: https://youtu.be/QdhS9tc0y_s
Xtra Styles PAK 16 includes an absolute plethora of styles... 200 to be exact! 50 new styles each for Jazz, Country, Rock & Pop, and Praise & Worship!
Take a gander at what you can expect to find: modern disco funk, exciting gospel shout, busy jazz fusion, soulful R&B ballads, various Americana styles, modern pop country, blistering heavy metal, uplifting worship rock, lo-fi hip hop, a plethora of progressive rock, old-timey autoharp, modern surf rock, and many more!
What are Xtra Styles PAKs?
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2023 (or higher). With over 2,600 styles included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-16, the possibilities are endless!
Xtra Styles PAK 16 requires the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® version 2023. They won't work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the 2023 UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition..
Xtra Styles PAK 16: https://youtu.be/KP1svm_RMfI
How do I know if I have XPro Styles PAKs or Xtra Styles PAKs?
You can find out in Band-in-a-Box® by clicking the "Add-ons" button in the StylePicker. Show me how.
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